First of all, I would say gay people definitely are liberal, I assume you were joking with the thread title though. The most common explanation I've heard though (and I've only heard it a couple of times, once on the West Wing) is that some gay people don't want sex to define who they are as a person. They'd rather be known as a person that happens to be gay, rather than a gay person. In other words, something they do in their private life behind closed doors shouldn't have to be what they're all about. I would guess that this is possibly how a conservative homosexual might feel. ------------------ "I have to say, I don't understand why these Rockets' fans are booing Scottie." -Calvin Murphy
Two comments come to mind: 1) One of the dangers with labeling people "liberal" or "conservative" -- or any other broad label -- is that people often have their own set of ideals, and it's doubtful that you can line up all of their beliefs with the stereotypes of that group. It's very easy to say that most homosexuals, animal rights activists, and vegitarians, are liberal. But in real life, one's sexual orientation doesn't have anything to do with one's views on animal rights, diet, gun control, abortion, or any other issue. We are a country that celebrates individual thoughts and ideas. 2) College life really is separate from the "real world," for a hundred reasons. College students should never, under any circumstances, be considered representative of the general population. ------------------ Stay Cool...
Achebe: A couple of things. First, like you said, your two experiences have come from two of the most conservative states in the country - South Carolina and Utah. People, as others have mentioned, are people and tend to fit the ideological makeup of their community no matter what their sexual orientation. Second, I've known a great number of lesbians who I've worked with as musicians. In fact, there were quite a few who volunteered for SOR because of their love for the Comets. They were predominantly liberal in the way you suggested - activist, animal rights, etc. However, I've known quite a few gay men to be conservative. Maybe it is something based on gender as well. I know that, in America, women tend to be more liberal than men. Plus, gay men almost ALWAYS make a lot of money. You will find almost exclusively conservative people on the high end of the financial spectrum for obvious reasons - lower taxes, etc. Add to that the fact that nearly every gay man I've ever met was very concerned with outward appearance and social standing. How many gay men have artistic, but commercial jobs like art dealer, interior designer, stylist, party/wedding planner etc? You almost never find a gay man as a day laborer or dentist, for example. Their jobs not only are creative but are flamboyant having the tendancy to put them in the spotlight. Liberals, on the whole, have less of a concern for that type of showiness. That is not to say that being alternative, dirty and working at a coffee shop isn't a pose all on its own, just that it isn't a "conservative" pose. Liberal jobs don' t require social grace, something that conservatives tend to value. Basically, liberals want to be seen as suffering for their earnings. Conservatives want to be seen as reaping the rewards of their labors. The most obvious example of this is their housing and automobiles. The cliche liberal abode is a duplex or loft in a rotten part of town and car is a beat up VW van. For a conservative, it is either a high-rise apartment or a mc-mansion way out in the suburbs and the BMW, Lexus or Mercedes. Both are really poses, but just in a different kinds. Gay men tend to fall into the latter category while lesbians tend to fall into the former. It would seem to me that the differences would be better stated by community, culture, race, class, wealth and gender rather than by sexual orientation. To use a non-homosexual example, my grandfather is one of the most right wing conservative people I've ever met but he is incredibly concerned with protection of the environment, pollution and conservation, beliefs that generally falls into the liberal category. For him, it is about how he was raised - on a farm - more than it is about his other conservative beliefs. Of course, I could be overthinking all of this. ------------------ I am very very sleepy.
Thanks for the input guys. I agree with all of you. I should add that both SLC and Charleston have very large gay communities... but as Jeff reminds me, sexual orientation need not be bound to one's political ideology. The local cultural area has obviously huge affects. Gender is a fundamental issue as well. All of the gay men I know are preoccupied w/ their stock portfolios and travel and looking good. The lesbians I know are just as fun to hang out with, but do seem to be a bit more approachable or conversationalist in world matters. Beneath all of this I'm afraid, is a bias, or an ideological blackmail that I'm quick to assume. The issues that I am concerned with most include racism, the environment, feminism and sexual orientation issues. Logically, humanist issues such as racism, sexual orientation and feminism are all on the same plane. Emotionally, for me, they are not. Racism, b/c of my nanny and growing up in SC, is my call to arms. It is for that reason that I always get flustered when I encounter a gay person, such as my old roommate, that is socially insensitive on racial issues. ------------------ We're going to stay together until something happens, if something happens. - Sidney Lowe on Shareef's career in Vancouver. [This message has been edited by Achebe (edited January 16, 2001).]
Don't be too surprised if you find that bias fairly often the other way around. I can't count the number of black and Hispanic people I know or have met who are serious homophobes. It's not all but a lot of them and it covers both men and women. ------------------ I am very very sleepy.
Perhaps I've had a limited experience of gay culture, living the majority of my memorable life in Charleston and in SLC. I doubt it though. In college I was active in a number of groups that represented my social views. I was active in my college's environmental group (Alliance for Planet Earth-- APE) as well as the Gay and Lesbian Alliance, the Coastal Conservation League, the Biology and Geology clubs, etc. I happened to go to GALA as a heterosexual w/ a friend of mine Jill, as well as a guy named Collen (Collen would later leave the straight team in a sign & trade for the GALA sec. that became a 'born again'). We were taken in by the group, though the president kind of eyed us cautiously. I should say she eyed me cautiously. She wore a pin with the label "real women don't eat meat". She wasn't a vegetarian though, strange (she just didn't trust men). Now during that time, Jill and I were constantly trying to do crossover work in different organizations. We tried to bind several groups together to be able to have a cohesive speaking voice in our SGA. But the homos never helped out. Gala, years later, joined some of the humanist causes involving racial issues, etc. But I should say, it took a while. Gala never argued for environmental causes. None of their members ever helped in our recycling efforts or rallies, or work with SC Coastal Conservation League, etc. I've lived in Salt Lake for 5 years now. I've had a more limited experience with gays here... I've roommated w/ a gay version of William Buckley. If I work in SLC, I usually work out of a coffee shop that most of my friends term 'gay'. Occassionally I go to the Unitarian church here, in which case I see a larger subset of the community. In my experiences though, gay people are concerned with being gay. I have only met one vegetarian homosexual in my life. She was your typical self-actualized, outstanding human that was gay too. She wasn't gay, and then a vegetarian or a humanist. She was a person, and then the rest of the stuff flowed out. Thrashing? ------------------ We're going to stay together until something happens, if something happens. - Sidney Lowe on Shareef's career in Vancouver.
Lol! That's one of the funniest things I've heard in awhile. Good thing there are plenty of fake women to go around; otherwise us straight guys would get pretty lonely. About gays being liberal - they're like anyone else. My gay friends are mostly pretty liberal, but I know some who are fairly conservative, too. Some do seem overly concerned with their "gayness" as an identity, but I can see where a being a member of an ostrasized (sp?) and somewhat isolated group could have that effect on people. ------------------ "Thirty-seven?" -Randall, Clerks www.clutchtown.com
Jeff, A couple of things. In the recent election Gore (a liberal) actually got a higher percent of the "upper-class" vote than did Bush (a conservative) A higher percentage of Jewish (well-off?) people voted (90%+) for Gore (Obviously Lieberman had something to do with this). A high percent of homosexuals (75%) voted for Gore, but lower than the percent of Blacks (90%+) and Jews. I wonder if Colin Powell had been Bush's running mate would he have gotten 90% of the Black vote.... Disclaimer: My numbers may not be exact to the decimal, but they're not off enough to be deceiving. ------------------ My Rocket Page
I know alot of homosexuals, and there isn't one that I would consider conservative. ------------------ "We don't have any plans. We just plan to win." Mack Brown
Jeff -- I would be interested in some book recommendations on the subject. Thanks. ------------------ "I have to say, I don't understand why these Rockets' fans are booing Scottie." -Calvin Murphy
You obviously don't work on Wall Street. I find it extremely dangerous to label people according to their sexuality. Don't you? IMO I don't think being straight or gay has an automatic assumption as to whether one is liberal or conservative. ------------------ 'Deeds, not words, shall speak me.'
outlaw, upper-class 56% to 39% Gore edge. http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2000/results/index.epolls.html ------------------ My Rocket Page
Gotta wonder what they consider "upper class" when their money category showed that the higher the income, the more likely they were to vote for Bush. Freak: I'll ask my wife and get back to you. ------------------ I am very very sleepy.
Here's a few: Suburban Nation : The Rise of Sprawl and the Decline of the American Dream - Andres Duany - Really fascinating stuff. Looks at how sprawl and the spreading out of communities has effected how we think and act. Bobos In Paradise: The New Upper Class and How They Got There - David Brooks - Very cool book about the new rich bohemians - strongly pro environment and health savvy but drive gas-guzzling SUV's and drink too much caffeine. The Clustered World: How We Live, What We Buy, and What It All Means About Who We Are - Michael J. Weiss - Go to their site and type in your zip for demographic info on how your area breaks down. Think of this book as a BIG socio-economic breakdown and how it effects behavior. http://www.dellvader.claritas.com/YAWYL/Default.wjsp Class: A Guide Through the American Status System - Paul Fussell - Older book (80's) but funny and very interesting. The Millionaire Next Door - Thomas Stanley and William Danko - Dispells the myth that most millionaires work in white collar, business environments. In fact, the book demonstrates that most millionaires are blue collar business owners who live within their means. Enjoy. ------------------ I am very very sleepy.
I read somewhere that there are more card-carrying millionaires in the Democratic party than in the Republican. Something like 3 to 1. I'll see if I can find where I read this. ------------------ 'Deeds, not words, shall speak me.'
I'm only speaking from first hand experience. I work with alot of homosexuals, and all of them pretty much vote straight democrat. They believe in gay rights and civil rights, etc. I didn't say "all gays are liberal." I said the persons who are gay that I work with are very liberal. ------------------ "We don't have any plans. We just plan to win." Mack Brown [This message has been edited by gr8-1 (edited January 17, 2001).]
Weird, 54 % of the people who made over 100,000 voted for Bush. Also, 70 % of homosexuals voted for Gore. ------------------ "We don't have any plans. We just plan to win." Mack Brown [This message has been edited by gr8-1 (edited January 17, 2001).]
I guess, the richest 4 %(entertainers, billionaires) of the country favored Gore. But, the upper middle favored Bush. ------------------ "We don't have any plans. We just plan to win." Mack Brown
