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Who will be better: Dallas or Houston?

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by BigDog63, Oct 21, 2014.

  1. baubo

    baubo Member

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    If that's the case, then McHale's issue is not close games, but rather as a coach in general. I was responding to a post that specifically pointed out McHale's inability to win close games. Which, at least in the regular season, was not true. Post-season? Well, that's a different story.
     
  2. vstexas09

    vstexas09 Contributing Member

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    Dallas for sure..

    Coaching gap
     
  3. TheresTheDagger

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    I honestly don't know.

    I think they are that close in total talent. The Rockets big 3 are better, younger, more athletic, and less injury prone than the Mavs. They are probably also a better defensive team (now)with 3 elite defenders as starters but overall, the Mavs defense is good too with the addition of a rim protector in Tyson. The Mavs are certainly deeper and better coached. Both teams will suffer from some chemistry issues mixing in new players although I think both have a strong nucleus of players that know their system.

    Both teams are hungry. One underachieved in the playoffs and has a massive chip on their shoulder. The other is filled with cast offs from other teams and an aging superstar who desperately wants to compete for one more ring.

    It may come down to health. And that is a complete crap shoot. FWIW, I think Dallas is more susceptible to this as both Dirk and Chandler are older players with an injury history and Parsons has had nagging back injuries. But then again, their depth really helps them in the case of injuries. For Houston, losing any starter not named Terrance Jones would REALLY hurt them.

    I am most interested in the development of 3 players for Houston...Nick Johnson, Kostas Papanikolaou, and Terrance Jones. I think all have higher ceilings than they currently show. I don't really see anyone on the Mavs roster who isn't a known.

    So...to answer your questions:

    1. I'm gonna say Houston based on last year and the star factor.
    2. I predict both will make the 2nd round and be knocked out there.


    Bonus: Parsons is tough to predict. He certainly seems to have the confidence and skills to improve. And I think having Dirk, Monta and Tyson around takes a lot of the pressure off of him to perform every night. Still...Dallas is more of a fishbowl than Houston. And that huge contract will weigh on him if he gets off to a slow start. Personally, I think the odds favor slight improvement...maybe 18/6/4 but I also think this first year that's probably his ceiling.
     
  4. BigDog63

    BigDog63 Member

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    Yes, let's do just that....

    First, Calderon was TERRIBLE defensively...I think worst in the league. Second, Felton isn't the replacement for Calderon. Jameer Nelson is, with major minutes from Devin Harris. If Felton gets court time, it's just a bonus.

    This is possibly true. I thought they overpaid for him, and Maverick's brass even said as much, basically saying 'Well, we had the Dirk discount to spend'. That's not a good reason to overpay someone. But, he does fit in well with their system, and doesn't need to be more than their 3rd best player, so top 50 actually works fine. The Mavs have turned players like him into better players than they were before, so we shall see.

    Yes, he was their key acquisition. He LOVES playing for Rick Carlisle. But, he is several years older. Health will be key. His health was an issue last time the Mavs acquired him...they will need similar good luck this time. Chandler says he feels healthier than he has in a long time...but that's easy to say.

    Mavs had lots of low key acquisitions that give them really good depth. They will probably play 10 deep during the year. That will pay benefits in reducing the minutes for Nowitski and Chandler.

    Chandler when healthy is a major upgrade over Dalembert...that will win a few games on its own. He also solidifies the rest of the team, as he did during their championship year.

    I think the key will be who can step up and replace Carter. That seems to be a tag team effort...will see how that works out. His contributions both offensively and defensively were under appreciated. Marion's skills had diminished...he was no longer the perimeter defender he was, and his scoring and rebounding had become very erratic. Parsons is a major upgrade there.

    The Mavs seems to have more options offensively, and should be quite a bit better defensively.

    This could be true...but it also means their system needs to change for that to happen. Ariza is a different player than Parsons was. But it could allow more freedom for Howard and Harden....if more freedom for Harden within McHaale's scheme is even possible.

    This is also true, but Mavs have been getting good at pulling teams together (Dirk is the only player left from the championship team, and he and Marion were the only two last year). Carlisle is great at explaining the Mavs system, and new players seem to fit in quickly, especially if they are veterans.

    Carlisle is a much better coach than McHale...that shouldn't be discounted.

    If Ariza does fit better within the Rockets system, I could see the Rockets being a third seed in the West. I would put the Mavs just behind them. Durant missing the first couple months is really going to hurt OKC, the Spurs tend to have a down year after a championship, the Clips are overrated but tend to do well in the regular season.

    But come playoff time, I think the Mavs have a better system and better coaching. Whether that works out with them both losing in, say, the second round, or the Mavs going a bit farther...we shall see.
     
  5. BigDog63

    BigDog63 Member

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    My, my....swamp water getting to ya? Or maybe malaria from the mosquitos?
     
  6. roslolian

    roslolian Member

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    Is this a joke? LOL! First of all the only saving grace Dallas has is Carlisle, their players are way too old (Dirk, Chandler) or just average (Parsons, Aminu, Monta) to really make an impact this season. If you actually watched Dallas games last year, you will see that Marion was pretty much indispensable as the glue guy/garbage man, he was the one who defended the other team's best player and just made his presence felt with his energy and hustle, something which complements Monta and Dirk's shooting abilities. Dallas then replaced him with pretty boy Parsons, somebody who wants to be seen as a budding scorer and doesn't want to do the dirty work. Does that seem like a major upgrade to you? Maybe if Dirk remains healthy and Parsons starts hustling or Aminu becomes Marion 2.0 then you can argue Dallas can be better than Houston, but Houston already had a top 4 seed last year and IMHO they are stronger this year.

    Houston pretty much got their own Marion in Ariza, Dwight and Harden are coming into the year with 1 season under their belt and although Asik and Lin are gone, to be honest with Asik moping about and Lin being linconsistent IMHO their impact was more name recognition and hype than actual production. While I think the backup pg is kinda' iffy, I think Terry/Ish (if they sticks) and Tarik Black will surprise a lot of people.
     
  7. cheke64

    cheke64 Member

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    What are you going to do when beat us in the first round? Oh yeahhh
     
  8. BigDog63

    BigDog63 Member

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    Agree. But the Dallas system depends on players knowing their roles, and playing them. I think that's why Tyson really wanted to come back, fwiw...he seemed more excited playing for Carlisle again than the Mavs did about getting him. The Mavs championship team bore this out....go back and look at their roster. That team shouldn't have won a championship, on paper, but it was a great TEAM, and that won out. The same would have to occur this year.

    In the regular season, I agree. In the playoffs, being a better TEAM and having a better coach can get you through a series you'd lose otherwise.

    I agree on the numbers, maybe a couple points higher ppg is all (Mavs were also one of the league's highest scoring teams last year). The D is the question...will just have to wait and see. That is also why Tyson staying healthy is so important...he cleans up other's mistakes. I really liked the pickup of Al Farooq Aminu as a defensive stopper...but he hasn't panned out in the preseason that way, and saw a piece saying he actually had among the league's WORST defensive statistics despite his perception as a defensive stopper.

    Charlie Villaneuva played GREAT in the preseason, likely earning a roster spot he wasn't guaranteed. He would be a great addition if that continues, at a position the Mavs need another contributor, particularly one who can score (Greg Smith might not get a shot off until 2015).
     
  9. The Cat

    The Cat Contributing Member

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    The Knicks should just have Phil coach and become a Finals team, right? After all, players don't seem to matter or win games or anything... :rolleyes:
     
  10. BigDog63

    BigDog63 Member

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    Actually, the responses seem to have been pretty fair (as I expected)...aside from Ebola guy. :)

    I don't think Carlisle does coach up young players. He coaches up veterans. That's why he's a perfect fit with many of the cast-offs the Mavericks seem to pick up.

    Mavs defense was pretty atrocious too, which is why they made the trade for Tyson and got rid of Calderon.

    There have a been a couple losses over the years one might attribute to Carlisle, but not very many. He seems pretty well regarded around the league as one of the top coaches out there, and he is very good at game strategy, and drawing up plays out of timeouts. Both of those pay big dividends in the playoffs moreso than in the regular season. Players also say he is really good at explaining the offensive and defensive system to players, and what their role within it is. I think McHale's systemless system is due to who he had playing for him: just giving Harden the ball is not a bad strategy when you have someone as good as Harden, but it can lead to stagnancy and other's wondering what their role is. I think the Rocket's ultimate success will have as much to do with McHale growing into his role and improving as it will any of their players. They need a more consistent strategy, IMHO...what is Harden's role, what is Dwight's role, when is each the go to guy, etc. Too much friction there at times...everyone needs to be on the same page.
     
  11. Come_Again?!

    Come_Again?! Member

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    Let's see if I can do this unbiased. Mind you, I hate the Mavs and havent really watched them play.


    1. Toss up: Dallas. Haven't really seen either of the schedules but if I had to guess Dallas will probably win more games. As long as they have Rick Carlisle as coach, I wouldn't bet against him. However just cause they win more doesn't mean they are better than us.

    2. Rockets. After thinking about it, their roster last year took the eventual champs Spurs to 7 games which is impressive but I think they've slightly regressed despite switching around veterans and adding a nice young player in Parsons.

    Chandler should do better than last year solely because of Rick Carlisle but he'll go as far as his attitude takes him. I expect him to be somewhat the same. I also expect people will finally realize he's not worth $15mil a year.

    Based on what I've seen in the preseason, his presence will definitely help when times get rough. I like how he's not only helpful to our young players but our leaders in Harden and Howard as well. Come playoff time, he and the Jet should will come handy.


    In all, cant wait til the media turns on Parsons. Unless he leads them to the WCF (at least), there's no way he'll be able to justify that contract. Only a matter of time.
     
  12. BigDog63

    BigDog63 Member

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    Cuban and Nelson have already said as much (which was surprising). The question is whether or not is worth it in terms of being the player they need him to be, even if that player shouldn't be getting $15 mil a year.

    I loved JET when he was in Dallas, but he was getting old here, and hasn't gotten younger the last couple of years. Only saw him play a few times in Boston and NJ...be he looked OLD. But I would love for him to be a contributor for the Rockets this year....he deserves it, and is great for fans and team chemistry.


    Or if he just has a bad start, even if the media doesn't say a thing. I am not impressed with his inability to STFU regarding his stay in Houston, much less say the right things (which would be nice things). He strikes me as someone who could definitely be petulant and a bit of a headcase...not great signs. But his play on the court, so far, has been fine, and he does seem to have moved on now that playing has actually started.
     
  13. BigDog63

    BigDog63 Member

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    From what I've seen of them, I agree.

    Ricky Ledo. I definitely see his potential, and he has improved markedly over last year, but he may still play more for the Legends this year than the Mavs, and he may never develop. But he is currently the 3rd SG on the depth chart, so he may stick with the Mavs...and when he does play, you can see the skill and athleticism that made him such a prized recruit out of high school. But it takes more than that to play in the NBA, especially for Carlisle. He would be a major plus for the Mavs if he makes any meaningful contributions this year.
     
  14. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    I want to beat the Spurs bad like last year, Mavs are nothing to me.
     
  15. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

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    It is a pure toss up. With a large factor being health. There is 100% of me that wants the rockets to mop the floor with them, and watch Dirk do his nervous habit where he pulls up on the shoulder part of his jersey a million times in a game when they are losing.
     
  16. t_mac1

    t_mac1 Contributing Member

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    The Rockets haven't even gotten past 6 games in the first round with Harden and you're asking for Parsons to get to the WCF to justify his contract?
     
  17. bilease

    bilease Member

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    Making young players better is a good thing, but not necessary to be succesful. Carlisle has other great ways of improving players and getting the best performance possible from them. And well, what does Rick Carlisle have? Nothing special except... Oh right, a championship... But meh, who needs those, right?

    Dirk is old, but without a doubt still one of the best players in the league. Maybe not top 5 anymore, but definitely up there. And if you consider 32 as "way too old", then I guess Lebron only has 1 good year left as well. Not saying Tyson and Lebron should be compared, but saying a player is "way too old" at 32 is just ridiculous. Monta is not on the same level as Dirk, but definitely not "just average". At the end of the day their success will depend wether they can play as a team or not, pretty much like in 2011. They didnt have the best players but simply were the best team. I'm guessing both team will be around 4-6, if everyone stays healthy and they find their rythm early in the season either team could probably get up to the 3rd seed.
    That might be right about Tyson (last year he had a broken leg from a collision, that's rather bad luck than injury prone though) but since when is Dirk known for being injury prone? He never missed a double-digit amount of games before the 12/13 season which he started with an injury. That's bad luck, but not being "injury prone". Because if that's all it takes then I guess Kevin Durant is now injury prone too.
     
  18. LikeMike

    LikeMike Contributing Member

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    I am probably just a homer - but before all the power rankings and stuff I was under the impression, that the Rockets are clearly the better team.

    Houston has 2 legitimate stars - Dallas has one and he is aging. I know, he is aging well, but he is still far away from his Championship run. Dallas has a couple of really nice role players, in Parsons, Ellis, Chandler - Houston only has Beverly and Ariza as really very good role players. Dallas has the better coach.

    Dallas starting 5 consists of 4 bad defenders - Houston has 3 elite defenders. Dallas has more guys that can create their own shot, Houston seems to have the better combination of guys.

    In the end, I take Harden, Howard, Ariza and Beverly over Nowitzki, Ellis, Parsons and Chandler every day. That may be the homer in me talking but I would bet, that in the end we have HCA in the first round, while Dallas is fighting till the last week to secure a Playoff spot.
     
  19. arjun

    arjun Member

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    I've caught some mavs games. What makes them tough is jameer Nelson is really really playing well.

    Jameer is hitting open shots at a high rate, driving hard to the basket, and creating for others.

    That is opening up shots for Ellis parsons and dirk.

    They also are playing extremely unselfish and pass very well.

    That being said, their defense is not there. I don't expect them to stay fully healthy, and they will go through stretches where their shot is off.
     
  20. EightDoobies

    EightDoobies Member

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    Well, everyone thinks Dallas going to the finals this year.. sooo..
     

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