who was to blame for the rockets' draft?

CD because he was too lazy or impatient to try and get more for the 8th pick.. we primarily needed a shooting guard and a power forward so he should have started shopping for those first.. just like jvg said, team defense can be taught.. eg. did he try calling the warriors and see what he can get for the 8th pick + anyone except 111 for troy murphy? a lot of teams wanted to go up but he did not have the patiennce or effort to at least call them or field their calls..

and les is eventually to blame if he not not fire or hold cd accountable for performing this bad (not the decision but the laziness & impatience) at the draft..

and poeple say lets wait for the other offseason moves.. but I think the trade has actually made the offseason acquisitions more difficult because it does not free any money and we still have to look for a PF which we could have gotten using the 8th..

 

Over the last 10 years, the franchise has demonstrated the ability to aquire stars or core pieces to which to build around for a run at a championship. The aquisistions of Drexler, Barkley, Francis, Yao, and McGrady demonstrate this. In each cases, there was resounding support for attaining these players.

Where the organization has failed miserably is surrounding them with role players. They have failed to properly evaluate what kind pieces these players need around them and how best to aquire these them. They botched too many drafts and handed out too many bad contracts. This has created a situation where you don't have many tradeable assets and thus limit yourself in building a franchise. The 1998-2001 drafts yielded the rockets 8 1st round draft picks in those 4 years. The mis-management of these draft picks is what ultimately set the franchise back.

 

I haven't seen this starkly posted but don't people usually OVERPAY for potential?

We gave up three #1s for Eddie Griffin yet we give up a "marketable" asset in Stro for a seasoned vet when we should have had someone thrown in with Battier just for Memphis to get Gay.

Back asswards.... but I like Battier on the team.

 

I hope you "blame" all these guys when the Rockets are hoisting the trophy.
Nobody knows for sure if this is all there is to the deal and even if it is you haven't seen the rest of the moves we're making.I wish people would get it through there noggins that our window is now.The Rockets need solid,proven pros who know3 their roles.Like cogs in a machine,we need a team,not just a collection of talent.The NBA is about matchups.C'mon.

 

I think JVG has a very good assessment of the team needs. He respects CD but makes a strong case for the direction to take. I believe CD tries to accomadate that direction. JVG doesn't do much college scouting, but relies on Lindsey. JVG sees the team building process as follows-

1. Didn't see championship in Steve Francis.
2. Knew Yao was a couple years away and would need another key player.
3. The opportunity to get TMac presented and that was the player. It cost the team depth. Mobley and Cato were players JVG liked.
4. So to get Tracy a price was paid plus Les limits the team to the luxury tax.
5. JVG is looking for some quick fixes- Sura, Barry, M James. There is no back up point guard, no back up at the forwards, TMac is having to play 2 guard and it is hard on him physically on the defensive end (health wise). TMac was worn down at the end of the season- by playoff time. Deke had a phenom year.
6. Last season Sura was expected back, Deke was going to give another over the top year, we signed a 2 guard (DA) so we can move TMac more to the 3 and we were going to try to get a pass first point guard to run the team (Rafer). We sign a back up PF - Stro. With D Anderson and Wesley sharing the 2 guard we feel we have adequate roles to allow Tracy to move to the 3. Tracy works hard, adds some muscle and is excited to get out of the 2 guard spot.
7. Stro is out played by Chuck Hayes - the final straw. He makes plays and then takes away plays- something JVG endured with Francis.
8. Beginning with losing Sura, injuries fried the team. No chemistry develops. DAnderson has nagging injuries and we lose chemistry and depth. TMac's back and Yao's toe were the nails in the coffin. This was a team held together by JVG.
9. We still need a 2 guard, Tracy wants to play the 3, he feels it will be best for his back and knees, but he wants to be healthy and if healthy he will do what it takes- no matter what. The real time crunch is on the Rockets because of Tracy. If Tracy can return to top form, he can dominate the game, he makes it look easy, but his health concerns and age give that window to be the next 3 yrs give or take.
10. So we sit before the draft needing about 4-5 players. We need a starting 2 guard, we need a backup point, we need a back up 3, we need a back up 2 guard, we need a starting caliber PF or a good back up, we need a back up center and most important we need a healthy TMac.-

We have the #8 pick, the #32 pick, the MLE and the trade exceptions.

11. JVG sees the need to maximize the #8 pick, he is desiring us to pick up a solid player who can step in and start or be a very good rotation player at the least. He would rather get a veteran who is solid, but he is convinced that Brandon Roy is the very best thing for the team as far as now and future. So the emphasis is to deal up for Roy.
12. He sees M James as the point guard to target for backup because he brings toughness and scoring also.
13. Draft night comes- CD has interest in the 8th pick from teams below.
CD has a deal in place to get Roy if all goes right. JVG wants to get a solid contributor- he has said over and over we can't miss on this one.
14. Portland wheels and deals and the scramble is on. You know the rest we lose Roy.
15. Now we are back to plan B- is there a solid veteran who can fill at least one if not two of our needs listed above?

Here is the way we need to be thinking because this is how I really believe the Rockets are thinking-

1. The future hinges on TMac.
2. Yao will acheive greatness- so he also has a time window 5-6 years.
3. We can't fill all the holes this offseason, unless some other team does something reallllllllll stupid for us. (could happen)
4. We have to maximize the MLE and the trade exceptions.
5. M James gives us a NBA back up point and scoring.
6. Steve Novak may be able to spread the floor for Yao.
7. We don't have a starting 2 guard- Luther and Wesley are too short, they are barely back ups.
8. We don't have a strong bench at all.
9. We need to maximize Yao and Tracy this season if they are healthy so we do need to make the playoffs. With chemistry and health our two stars could take us deep into the playoffs. We are fortunate to have two players of their caliber.
10. We still need to upgrade the team and it depends on making very very good offseason moves- Battier, M James would be very good for this offseason.

The final story is who wanted Stromile? Who wanted Derek Anderson? Those were set backs- busts- to the plan. They cost us. Losing them did nothing to hurt us, it was the fact that they didn't deliver what we needed that hurts.

Stro- he still has potential, he might get it, he might turn out to be consistent- but he might not; like draft picks he still could be what he is- an underacheiver.

I don't think blaming is what we need right now. I would make the McGrady trade over again. The rest of hind sight tells me I would do alot of other things different.

 

I totally agree! swift did not show his ability b/c of JVG. Swift is a player much like Stodamaire of Suns. If he is in Suns, he will be a very successful PF!

 

Just look at these:

Sign Anderson, then dump Anderson after 1/3 season
Sign Swift, then trade Swift after one year
Trade James, then try to sign James after one year
Prefer Bowen over Padgett, then draft Novak after one year

Someone just cannot make up his mind about what is HIS type of players.

 

and JVG also said he wanted youth, athleticism, and ability to score because defense can be taught according to him, but trade gay and stro for battier

 

Great post, Rhester.

 

I agree. This one's pretty good as well.

I love getting Battier. It kills me that we gave up Swift, as well as Gay, and apparently are getting nothing else. We should have at least gotten their pick at 24 in the deal. There were some very good players who might have been developed for the future at that spot. Who knows, some of them might have contributed this coming season. I would feel much better about the move had we managed that. And we should have managed that, if not more.

Hey, some excellent posts in here from all points of view. Some really good reading.

 

JVG knew what he wanted when we signed Anderson and Swift: a true SG who could spread the floor and an athletic PF whose rebounding and defense would alleviate some to the pressure on Yao. Both players fell short -- WAY short -- of these expectations and were consequently moved.

If memory serves, James would have never been dealt had Sura gone down. We needed a true PG, someone to run our offense, something James couldn't do. Now we have the opportunity to have both.

As far as Padgett/Novak/Bowen goes...what can I say? Bowen had some very, very compromising pictures. I glad to have Novak on board. Howard/Novak/Hayes isn't a great rotation at the 4 but its more than servicable.

Fault JVG's coaching style if you will but he's clearly been proactive in identifying needs and acquiring players to fit said needs. If anyone is responsible, its Dawson.

 

Balla post, rhester. Your thoughts are well-balanced and grounded.

For the sake of this thread however, I do have someone to blame for the Rockets' draft. I fervently nominate Stromile Swift.

Going into this past season, most of us had really high hopes for "Slo." When T-Mac talked of turning him into an all-star, I think Tracy, along with many of us, actually considered this achievement to be an outside possibility. Obviously, all the love and giddy feelings quickly soured as we realized Swift was a huge disappointment.

Many will coolly play the chance and opportunity card. But Slo couldn't even show up on time for practice. And on the floor, he'd sprinkled a temporary flash of brilliance amid his nightly overall disappearing act. No passion. No inspiration. We lost and wasted a year on this joker.

Yes, management has made several bad investments. But be real, most of us originally liked those investments.
- DA was a positive signing, but he got hurt, and Coach wanted to allow Luther more playing time in a difficult season.
- Eddie Griffin was heralded as quite a treasure. And he was actually an up-and-coming favorite until he started shooting guns at females.
- Bosjan Nachbar was the beneficiary of the Euro Hype Machine. And everybody knows Rudy had a soft spot for guys in his "image."
- The list goes on and on. But in fact, the only really unforgiveable moment in Rockets Draft History was the Rashard Lewis fiasco. There's really nothing anyone can say in defense of that debacle.

I think the Gay fanatics can blame Slo for the reluctance of the Rockets Brass to take a run at another "potentially-great" player.

Hey, fellas. If you just recently caught your girl riding some other dude, it stands to reason you wouldn't generally get involved with another girl with a history of the same. But maybe that's just me.

 

Guess you haven't seen many of his other posts.

 

I'm still in shock ... this was an armchair GM nightmare. Some of us like to dreamcast, building a Rocket team into a championship contender, trading our chits, outwitting other teams, and ending up with trophies. But, watching the Logo gloat over our stupidity, and so many give us an "F" ... geez. Gay might not have been valued by us, and a few other teams, but some, like Memphis, believed they were getting the best player in the draft. We might have given up on Swift, but other teams still believe in his potential. That is where horsetrading comes in, and we should have gotten a lot more. Getting Battier isn't the bad part, its getting screwed in the deal that is hard to swallow, and now having so little to work with. We only had a few trading chits this off-season: (1) #8 pick, (2) the "potential" of Swift, (3) a 4.2 TE best used in the draft to get another player, (4) MLE, (5) Luther Head, (6) Howard, maybe Alston. That's it. Some of those had to be used in combo to get us at least 2 starters, and depth. We sent our 2 best assets and diluted a third, and all we got was a backup for depth, although admittedly valuable depth.

Now, I like Battier. I think he's valuable to our team. But, I don't expect him to be a starter. He's a great character guy, "not a numbskull," has high basketball IQ, which will have him fit with Yao and TMac well, can hit the outside shot, has good defense, but he's a bit slow, and guys can get past him now, and probably his best years are behind him. He can play 3 positions, which is nice, and I expect to see him at PF more than we think, and if we get Mike James, I believe James will start at the 2, and backup at PG, giving us a very short backcourt. I guess JVG really believes in Hayes at PF.

Now, if this is all part of another trade, where we get a better PF, allowing us to use our MLE on someone besides James, then maybe we've got something. But somehow I've got a bad feeling this was our "big move," which is very dissappointing.

 

Plain and simple we gave up too much for too little in return and CD's drafts have by & large SUCKED BIG TIME. This deal has short term written all over it (which smells like JVG to me). I thought that the point of the thread was who do you think put the biggest stamp on this deal (75% of whom at CC.net don't like). If you like the deal, good for you (but that isn't the point of this thread is it). Thanks for chiming in with your editorial. Do you feel better now? You can keep Derek Andersen, I didn't say anything about him. DO NOT PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH!

 

It didn't take a coaching genius to know what KIND of players we needed. Everybody knew what kind of PF and SG we needed. It was the TYPE of players JVG was constantly harping on: smart, hardworking, smart, and uh what else? let's see, did I say hardworking? Yeah, the proverbial JVG-type of player. Are Swift and Anderson his type of players? Apparanetly not.

Yeah, Sura went down and we had James as our PG. JVG didn't think James was good enough to be his starting PG. So we dealt him for a "real" PG. Now James has had a breakout year. We are lucky that he said he wanted to come here. But it's still no guarantee that he will come. Did JVG foresee that we would get James back after a year? If he did, he would be brilliant. But I don't think so.

Actually, I respect his coaching style. I think he did some good to the team in terms of his coaching. It's his constant attempt of finding and dumping players whom he can't coach that irks me.

 

Ok let me follow up while mocking the style of your post (which is completely off track from the point of the thread). My biggest pet peeve is people who have an overwhelming urge to defend the infallible genius of this trade at the cost of even the truth itself! It is so obvious that CD is a MUCH better GM than Jerry West who is clearly a washed up has been like you say. CD's playoff and draft record over the last eight years speaks for itself. Why would we want to go to the playoffs the last three years in a row when we could only go one out of the last three years? Yes they were washed out in the first round each year, but at least they got a wiff. Do you prefer to just ride the pine instead? Why would the Rockets want to have no tradeable assets now when we could instead have an exceedingly poor draft record to brag about? You are right, Jerry West is an idiot and his track record proves it, I just didn't know it until you said so.

Rudy Gay is a legit 6-8. Here is the link to the official measurements. http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=2485024&name=ford_chad&univLogin02=stateChanged
Next year when Houston plays Memphis if when they are standing side by side Shane Battier is as tall as Rudy Gay I'll go Charles Barkley and kiss your jack ass!!! What freaking planet are you from where the truth is irrelevant. You and I both KNOW that Battier isn't a legitimate 6'8" like Rudy Gay is. If you were pushing Stro before we got him what gives you the right to use sarcaism and deceit to attack me when we both know that it will take at least two to three years to see how this deal really shakes out? Where did I say if I prefer Swift to Hayes? Where did I say that Swift is better than Battier? Do you need me to buy you hooked on phonics so you can learn how to read?

Again who taught you how to read? I did not say that. Just like I didn't say we could get Kobe for Swift either, but perhaps something more like Deshawn Stevenson would have been nice given our current lineup. We both know that Derek Andersen is a washed up no ass pine riding 2 guard (not a half ass 2 guard).

You add no value to this thread (which is whose fingerprints are on this deal), so if it offends you to think about this question why not just put the crack pipe down and find another topic.

 

If you think this was a good trade or will make us competitive in the West you are loony...

We will now wait for far more than 3 seasons, this team as it is made up right now will be a lottery pick again next year...