Who faced tougher defenders/defenses? Jordan or Harden? Debate/Poll

Well then you missed the point.

I made it clear what I think and made my case...I was looking for what many think and if otherwise a real argument for why... a response that simply states "MJ is better" or "guys were bigger, stronger, physical, etc" isn't an argument and way less than what I mentioned in counter...

 

That argument can be easily disputed because of Harden's ability to handle the ball at a level greater than any of that era combined with his ridiculous level of shooting the ball from range and off the dribble.... the defense on perimeter jumpers was absolutely much more lax and way more uncontested... Harden would thrive due to that very reason and while still possessing the ability to attack and take the contact when needed... And look at other perimeter scorers who were high on the scoring lists in MJs era to easily dispute this notion... None of them could shoot the ball like Harden.. the closest would be Reggie Miller and that was mostly off catch and shoot... Reggie also got to the line quite a bit for his playstyle cuz he was crafty and he wasn't tougher than Harden or physically more durable... we know Harden is as crafty as they come and that translates.

 

Better playmaker
Better 3PT shooter
Better FT shooter
Better ball handler
Greater impact without another star player

Yeah not only is it credible its true.... Harden is a better offensive player... MJ is the better player though because of his clear edge in defense and being close enough to him offensively.

 

Sure... Now find me some games of MJ being "fouled 6 times in one play"... Cuz Im not seeing anything close to this for MJ and thats even in the playoffs against the Bad Boy Pistons... Matter fact find me some games of this happening to any star perimeter player of that era... Mitch Richmond, Mullin, Clyde, Dominque, Bernard, Dale Ellis, Alex English, Reggie, etc

 

And you fail without ever trying.... Quite often.

 

Tell these "fans" to find a safe space.... or another team if its ohhhhh so harddd to find a reason to be a fan.

 

Oh I know who he is, but many do not... he was a chucker and apparently an overrated player by you if you thought this was a good post... LOL... Dude really gassed Michael Adams...

 

Nah the perimeter defenders in MJs era were definitely shorter in stature.... and also had shorter wingspans as you said.

 

The fact that you don't see how this benefits elite iso players much more than now is laughable.

 

So glad to see you concede the facts that Harden is better at all that I mentioned and thus a better offensive player than MJ...

Also MJ has Harden by ppg in the offs due to taking 5 more shots per game, but Harden has better efficiency and more assists per game... And as I said... Harden has also had greater impact without another star player.

Jordan's record without Pippen: 154-170 in regular season, 1-9 in playoffs...

And you're gonna say that he didn't have good teams then or help... Or that he lost to a stacked team... Well yall wouldn't give Harden that excuse.... Also Harden has never been swept in his career nor has he missed the playoffs ever....

Harden never had a team as good as the best Bulls teams nor did he play with a player as good as prime Scottie since being a starter.

Although this is you just diverting from the fact that Harden is a better offensive player than MJ... I'm talking about skillset... He wasn't better at any of what I mentioned.. plenty of players during his time that were better at some of those individual skills and technology or schemes weren't an excuse... And defensive schemes today are tougher, then back then for ISO players... Thats why I think his numbers would be a little worse today albeit still great.

 

Were they a couple of NBA superstars? And if not.... You believed them?

 

So then you concede Harden is the better 3pt shooter, Ft shooter, and ball handler then?

I didn't claim that or I'd think Russ was a better playmaker than Harden(he isn't), but assists is a part of it... Harden is pretty clearly a better passer and creator for his teammates than MJ... MJ had to learn how to be a better playmaker... Harden was a natural playmaker from the jump.... If you watch them play MJ didn't possess the vision of Harden nor was he even adept at making the passes Harden is capable of regularly.... Harden can make all the passes... pocket passes, PnR passes, lob passes, lead passes, transition outlet passes, skip passes, drive n kick passes, etc.... at an elite level... MJ wasn't on that level as a playmaker for others.... Passing angles and lanes are also harder and more varied in todays game... in a no zone defense league you have to do hard doubles which makes the passes easier to read and react for a player in isolation especially.

Nah and MJ scored 5 more points not 10....and On 5 more FGA.

Idk why you would look at both of their games and think MJ was a better passer or "playmaker"... Harden and LeBron also are both better playmakers than MJ.... Its pretty clear Harden is the best playmaking 2 in NBA history.

I'm not even arguing he's the best player in the game or any of that... so that's fair, but not my point... that was more of a general response to what many would say on here if not you though.

He was the third option and got the least opportunity of the 3 of them... Idk why that would be the comparison as opposed to when he became the #1 starter.

CP was still elite 2 years ago, but he wasn't on Pippen's level at that point.. Too injury prone(missed games in the season and playoffs) and not as versatile... Harden with a Pippen type player would've likely beat the Warriors both of the last 2 seasons.... His defense and playmaking would've been more valuable... And I'm not even getting to players like Grant, Rodman, or Kukoc.

The stats Ive been referencing were playoff stats...lol... Yeah LeBron also isn't as good as Harden anymore.

I agree and that can't be overlooked when you make arguments centered around chips or great playoff success.