I'm going to keep reposting these criticisms till you respond to them, OHMSS. I'm not going to let you get away with saying all that stupid **** and not back up what you're saying again.
You are wrong about the discussion, and are ignorant on the subject. You then feel justified to make personal insults because it disagrees with your world view and paradigm on the matter. And your view on the matter is one of total ignorance. You are arguing and debating on a subject that you clearly know nothing about, yet you feel the need to come off like an expert on it, and calling others "delusional" for simply knowing something about basketball that you don't. I will explain it one time and then I am finding an ignore feature for you. There are HUNDREDS, HUNDREDS, HUNDREDS of professional clubs in Europe, playing in the top divisions in their countries. When the salaries were much lower back in that time, the Euroleague teams had 2-4 really good players. Even the club with the highest budget would have maybe just 6 or 7. The really good players were widely dispersed throughout many leagues and many countries. Now, since the budgets have increased so much, the top players have gravitated towards the clubs where the big pay is to be had. Thus, the level of the big Euroleague clubs has exponentially risen and the overall level of the league is MUCH HIGHER than it was then. I really don't care what you think of this, what you believe if this, because it just that. What you think or believe, not what is actually factual. You don't know a single thing about European basketball. So please stop trolling me for no reason with such arguments.
Fuenlabrada is a mid-level team in ACB. That's what OHMSS was saying. Btw., Biyombo played 14 games each for Fuenlabrada and Illescas (a team in the LEB Silver, the Spanish 3rd league). The Spanish League is the second best in the world if we ignore the Euroleague (because it's an international league).
As for the USA media always saying the ACB is "second best league in the world" - they apparently think the ACB is the actual Euroleague. I don't think they even realize that they are two different leagues. I have asked guys like Chad Ford and David Aldridge about this, why they keep insisting the ACB is the "second best league in the world", even though that is actually the Euroleague. ACB is the best domestic national league in Europe. Neither one of them seemed to even realize they were two separate leagues. These are the "expert draft analysts". Actually, what is so funny about these American media saying "ACB is the second best league in the world" is that if you call them on it, they try to weasel out of it with this excuse, "but Euroleague is an international league." But they claim ACB is "second best league" period, not second best "national domestic league". And it just shows they don't know what they are talking about. Because actually, the ACB in truth is the BEST league in the world then. Because the NBA is also an international league. The NBA is an international league, just like the Euroleague. So if what they claim was true, then the ACB is the BEST league in the world, not the second best. It's just funny. nbadraft.net and draftexpress.com always do this nonsense too. "Best league in the world outside the NBA", "second best league in the world", etc. I have pointed out to both websites that the ACB is the second best league in Europe, so if it is the second best league in Europe and the world, then the NBA must be the third best league in the world, since NBA is also an international league, just like Euroleague is. Neither website has ever provided any rational explanation for why they claim the second best league in Europe (ACB), is the second best league in the "world". It reminds me of the whole US sports culture that claims all their national champions as the "world champions". Anyways, thanks Croatian Sensat. I have explained over and over here on some basic and general things of how basketball works in Europe, like for example, playing on Fuenlabrada is being in a lower level of basketball than playing on Barca, even though they play in the same league, Fuenlabrada is a mid-level club in the second best league in Europe (ACB), etc. It unfortunately seems though, that no matter how much patience and detailed explaining you do here, you will then get trolled and insulted and called a liar or whatever by some people that have never even once in their entire lives ever even seen a European basketball game. But they know better. They are experts on European basketball and they know all about something they have never once watched. Their "sources" for their great European basketball knowledge are great bastions of European basketball knowledge like Hoopsworld, Givony at draftexpress.com and Smith at nbadraft.net (hacks)............or Chad Ford/David Aldridge rolleyes, etc. Or in-game announcers during NBA games. After all, according to these in-game NBA announcers I have learned many facts about the Euroleague. Like for example, that Tiago Splitter was a 2 time Euroleague MVP and that Luis Scola was a 3 time Euroleague MVP. I learned this from the in-game NBA announcers. It was something new to hear, since in fact, neither one of them was ever a Euroleague MVP. I also learned from the in-game NBA announcers that every single player from Europe that is in the NBA was a "superstar" and was "dominant" in Europe "before coming to the NBA". I find it funny learning that Skita, Ian Mahinmi, and Jonas Jerebko, and Mickeal Pietrus, and Rodrigue Beabuois, and about 50 other such examples were "dominant superstars" in Europe. Very funny stuff. Absolutely hilarious. Or how they will say, "Dirk was one of the best Euroleague players".......heard that one many times. But Dirk never even played in Euroleague. Or like how you hear that any American player that was in Europe was all world there and then "earned a call to the NBA". I learned from Fran Fraschilla's in-game calls during the World Championship that, "Greece and Spain have 12 players that could be the 10th man on an NBA team." Yeah, I guess that's why Team USA, which would crush any NBA team by 30 points, easily, has lost to such teams......oh wait, that was explained too by Steve "Snapper" Jones' in-game announcing - because "the USA just throws together a team, and the rest of the world, these guys stay together and play the same team for YEARS together and they always have their 12 best players". I learned this year from in-game NBA announcers that Gary Neal was a "superstar" of European basketball and that his "incredible play there earned him the chance to work out for the Spurs." The same Gary Neal that got cut from every team he played on in Europe. I learned from NBA in-game announcers this year that Ricky Rubio and Josh Childress were the "best players in Europe"......................... It's like saying that DeShawn Stevenson and Rafer Alston are the "best players in the NBA". Yet, apparently, most NBA fans believe it. Of course, to any knowledgeable European basketball fan this stuff is all just comical and absolutely hilarious, but the NBA only fans seem to actually believe it all. They believe all this NBA marketing 101 fantasy stuff. The NBA game announcers just make the stuff up. It's complete nonsense and it is just NBA marketing. But when you read the comments here and the way some people get so mad and start arguing over the simplest things about European basketball, and how they have such wrong and obvious stereotypes on the Euroleague, you can see that they actually believe this marketing nonsense they hear from the NBA about the Euroleague. Or the classic one, from NBA GMs, coaches, general managers, the scouts, the announcers, and those mock draft sites - "NBA players are taller than Euroleague players".............. Just at even the simplest of issues they can't get basic facts right, as the Euroleague players are actually taller than the NBA players. The Euroleague players are taller, yet these "NBA experts" constantly claim the opposite. I love the mock draft sites and the good old, "but how will his game translate to the NBA where the defenders are taller? How will he adjust to taller players?" Yeah, indeed, how will he "adjust", since the Euroleague actually has taller players than the NBA. These are the supposed draft experts, and just ask around this site and someone here will surely claim that these guys are "gurus". Don't dare question or say something different than what is written at draftexpress.com, otherwise you are just a troll. Even though that site can't get basic facts right, like heights of the league's players, which is the real best league in Europe, etc. (these "gurus" are more like amateurs). It's almost gotten to the point where it is practically impossible to discuss international basketball with most NBA only fans, which is just sad. DD seems to fit the typical NBA only fan these days. According to DD (paraphrasing), 1. Ricky Rubio (one of the worst point guards in the Euroleague), will be, "the next great NBA point guard". 2. The Wolves would, "go undefeated in the Euroleague". 3. "They use a trapezoid lane and a college 3 point line in Euroleague." - paraphrasing on a couple quotes on that one. 4. "European players get better when they come to the NBA because they play with better teammates and have better coaches, unlike the Euroleague where their awful coaches and teammates hold back their talent and make them worse." He then goes on to claim the Wolves roster and coaching as superior to that of Barca's....... 5. "Euroleague is to the NBA as MLS is to the EPL. Euroleague is a minor league and is worse than the D-League." EPL is the 2nd to 3rd best league in the world. MLS is something around the 30th-50th best league in the world probably. NBA is 1 and Euroleague is 2. Someone apparently fails at basic reasoning and logic concepts. The average total compensation for players in the Euroleague (base net salary, bonuses, house, car, living) is said to be about $1 million US. The top players earn what is the NBA equivalent of $8 million to $10 million a year. Top coaches earn what is equal to about $4 million to $5 million a year in the NBA. The biggest clubs have budgets of well over $40 million dollars. It's a "minor league". Apparently, some here don't even grasp or know what a "minor league" is. Of course, there does not seem to be a whole lot of basic sports knowledge from certain members here. "Euroleague is worse than the D-League"........ The D-League would be something like the 10th-15th best league in Europe. The forums here really need a few more posters that know and understand the Euroleague and European and overall international basketball in general.
Bumping this questions by CH...I would like to know also. His blocking numbers are decent but outstanding, although draftexpress had this analysis on his defensive comparabilities a couple months ago. Offensively, He's one of the most refined centers in the draft. In his draft workout video, he used the word jumpshot 5 times, which is hilarious, but at the same time alarming. <object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/hcgpIuD_JyQ?version=3"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/hcgpIuD_JyQ?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></object> Even though, I initially had doubts that he would be anything more than a jumpshooter, nearly 42% of his shots were in the paint last season. Again, I would like to know why his stock is so low considering he only had 2 years of playing significant minutes, and he's improving steadily. Whats the difference between him and Kanter? I just don't see the disparity.
I don't doubt your knowledge of European basketball is greater than mine. I do know that your presentation of that knowledge, and the manner in which you berate other posters, and your arrogance leave me no choice but to ignore you. If you could have civil discourse without ALWAYS falling into the trap of denouncing other posters as ignorant NBA fans, it would be much easier to read what you have to say. Also, people can disagree with you without being ignorant and having no knowledge of European basketball. When someone says Lebron is better than MJ, I'm not calling that person ignorant, I'm saying I disagree with them. You need to learn to do the same.
The biggest knock I've been able to find on him is his athleticism, he has a 25 inch max vertical. But like Carl Herrera said, with that type of reach and height, you don't really need to be that athletic.
Good call. I didn't realize he was almost legit 7 feet also. If the Rockets stand pat, I am hoping for some combination of Biyombo or Valuncianas (I think one or both of them might free fall a bit) along with either Tobias Harris, Chris Singleton, Vucevic, Honeycutt, Bebe, Jeremy Tyler, or Keith Benson. And an invite to training camp for Giorgi Shermadini, Jon Leuer, Chandler Parsons, and maybe Michael Dunigan.
Wow Vucevic looks like a really good center prospect. He has NBA size a legitimate 7 feet and, not the "needs to fill in his body" situation that you find with so many young centers. Based on the highlight and workout tapes I could find on the internet he seems to have a very refined offensive game and significant enough length to have a real impact defensively. I wonder why he isn't getting more run. Either way, I'm glad he isn't getting alot because he could be a possibility at #23 for us even though he appears to be talented enough to warrant a lottery pick. My question is if we get a young center like Vucevic or Biyombo, will they be given an opportunity to start?
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/sam_amick/06/10/draft.notebook/index.html Who do you think those teams are targeting? I'd go with GS: Kanter, HOU: Valanciunas, NY: Fredette, CHA: D.Williams
Biyombo is nowhere near ready to start though. Skillwise Vucevic could potentially start, but with McHale's commitment to defense, I'm not sure we can take Chuck Hayes out of the lineup.
Many are starting to realize that Biyombo is seasoned enough that he may be ready to start sooner than later. He may get in foul trouble a lot early on but i think he is ready.
