Whitney Houston is...

damn....I actually already knew that...just couldnt comeup withthe right term when I posted.

makes me wonder what Ill forget next..

I will point out that it doesnt necessarily invoke a racist bent to refer to it like that. Someone not trained in music might not realize that that technique actually has a name, and they would refer to it by associating it with the genre that has made it famous. Which in this case would be R&B.

just a alternative take on what you brought up AB.

 

My reference to slavery was biblical, referring to Moses leading the Jewish slaves out of Egypt.

And my reference of the term "R&Bing" has NOTHING to do with race - many singers do it from all races. I don't like that singing style, regardless of whichever race performs it.

Get over yourself, man. You are WAY too racailly sensitive. I'm getting really sick of you twisiting my words around to point the racist finger at me. I have never brought race into this discussion. You have. You've got problems. You might realize that if you knew that I'm a half-breed of two different races (my parents have an interracial marriage).

So lay off with the racist crap. Quit being so friggin' sensitive about it.

If you'd have looked at my profile, you would have noticed that I'm 35 yrs old. I also have a wife and daughter.

And I sign my posts because its more aesthically simple when using a vertically structured compositional device. Or, if you believe AB, I sign my posts because, for some strange unknown reason, it indicates that I'm insecure about myself. Take your pick.

vocal improvisation is a more broad term that can encompass many different singing methods. And it's just easier to say R&Bing than vocal improvisation. Doesn't matter.

Hey look! I said broad! You gonna accuse me of being a sexist, too?

-- droxford

 

Nope. Just someone who seemed like a rational person before this and now made himself look like an ass to the whole board.

Look man, you filled your posts with hate and called Whitney and her husband crackheads. Crackheads are often stereotyped as black. Then you tried to justify your bashing of Whitney by saying you hate it when someone R&B's something. R&B is also closely associated with black people.

Can you really act surprised when AB and everyone else reading the thread starts to think that you are a racist? (Or a troll)

 

I haven't made any associations with any races. None. Zero.

I haven't mentioned, referred, or insinuated to any race at any time. Not once.

-- droxford

 

Take away the "n" in Whitney and what have you got?





huh?






right!

 

glad to see fade is channeling the Duke again....

 

I rarely agree with droxford in music threads, but he really didn't say anything racially insensitive.

 

I have really always disliked Whitney Houston in the same way that I dislike Barbara Streisand, Celiene Dion and Mariah Carey. It isn't that they can't sing. They can. I just really, REALLY get bored by that style of singing. It grates on me like Broadway. It's like hearing Bette Midler sing "The Rose." Sure, the girl has pipes, but yuck.

For female singers, I tend to prefer the more subtle and/or less pop - kd lang, joni mitchell, sarah vaughn, aretha franklin, etc. As for R&B, I'm really digging Jill Scott thanks to Mrs JB. She's great and never needs to go nuts with her voice. She just lays back in the pocket.

Nothing against Whitney as a purely technically gifted singer. She just doesn't move me that much.

And, while I think droxford is, for the most part, nuts, I will agree that Dolly's version of I Will Always Love You is brilliant. The whole point of that song was that it was meant to be a quiet, pretty folk song. It is NOT a happy song. It is a breakup song and meant to be whispered not shouted.

I always felt like Whitney's arrangement, while a technical feat, really didn't capture the subtle sadness of the lyrics.

 

From everything I have read and heard from people in radio who spent time with her before Bobby, Whitney was not the angel she claimed to be. Bobby just brought her true self out to the public.

 

you are grasping a straws. she is destined to be utterly forgotten in the great cannon of female voices, athough she may crop up down the road with the likes of the pointer sisters or gloria gaynor as campy nostalgia.

 

I don't think that's true, but...

When you look at the history of great musical artists, the singer is becoming a statistical anomoly when it comes to how they are viewed in music. Up until the 1960's, the singer was the icon. That changed when artists began to perform their own music.

Since that time, the role of singer - not singer/songwriter - does not have nearly the importance it once did. That is particularly true today when singers - thanks in large part to Madonna - have more in common with dancers than they do with train vocalists.

I think also that it is important to note how the changes in the industry have dramatically effected singers. Strong pop vocalists like Dion, Houston and others don't get the airplay with big ballads like they used to. Now, Britney and others with far less talent own those markets.

It is also true that the R&B industry is changing. It is still more traditional than rock and pop where you can be a has-been at 25 years old, but there are a lot of changes going on to emphasize the singer/songwriter (Alicia Keys) as well as a more subtle soul singing style.

Whitney still is and will always be recognized as a tremendous vocalist and a great performer, but I'm not so sure she will be considered the greatest ever. That's a hard thing to quantify.

 

if i come off as crass, pardon my elocution. i am no musician but have strong opinions about it and all types of artistic expression. i am a visual artist living in brooklyn and i am bombarded by culture on a daily basis. most of my friends are artists, musicians, architects, designers, etc. my musician friends truly respect my opinion and seek it as a non-musician take, just as i value their opinion about my visual work. so, to quit rambling, i will just say that the history of music notwithstanding, whitney has zero artistic merit in my view and i am surprised that so many on this board think she does. i'm not trying to derail the thread nor am i a troll. i have an opinion and i gave it, that's all.

 

I respect that opinion, however, there is a difference between saying that you think Whitney sucks and, "she is destined to be utterly forgotten in the great cannon of female voices, athough she may crop up down the road with the likes of the pointer sisters or gloria gaynor as campy nostalgia."

I think her place in music history is more important than you think. But, so is Barbara Streisand and I find her to be utterly devoid of any merit whatsoever. Of course, I also think the same thing about the Grateful Dead and any number of other bands, artists, etc. that many others have come to adore.

I can appreciate their place in music history and their talent without being a fan.

 

Jeff,

I feel the same way about the Rolling Stones and Madonna. They are 2 artists that I just cannot get into (although I do have Madonna's "Immaculate Collection" CD) but I respect their impact on music.

Hell, the Rolling Stones have to be considered in the top 5 of all-time when it comes to rock bands, but you won't ever find me buying a CD by them - different strokes for different folks.

 

i said way earlier in this thread that it is a matter of taste. how important she is, or will be, depends on who you talk to and the breadth of their musical tastes. let me ask you this: how many musicians do you know personally who think whitney houston is an important figure in the history of music? i'm not sure i know anyone, except you and posters in this thread. i don't love the greatful dead but they have undoubtedly had a huge influence on music. whether that influence is good or bad is another story. whitney has no merit or influence the way i see it and if imitation is the most sincere form of flattery, then only celine dion's tortuous arias extend houston's legacy.

 

The thing that gets me about the term R&Bing is that it strikes at the very core of traditional African American music, ie gospel. This may be why AB is reacting to the use of the term as he is. Vocal improvisation is almost at the root of most black R&B music and definitely most gospel. I know if droxford had said, "I hate when people start black gospeling music up," I'd be fit to kick some ass (yes, over someone's internet opinion). But as it is, I can only infer a connection and give him the benefit of the doubt as to how he veiws black music as a whole.

Still, I think his opinion of Whitney sucks and is largely baseless.


P.S. AB brought race into this. Complain to him, not me.

 

You weren't joking when you said you were going to vomit.