It's government regulation with the fear Of markets that allowed the AMA to gain the Power to create these systems. That is a liberal failure just as republicans backing Docs incomes as free market is folly. You're so stuck in your party nonsense that You can't have a rational discussion.
We believe that because medical school requires such high grades to get into and then continued hard work after admittance that people who make it through should command high salaries. Additionally we feel that the more they make, the better incentivized the profession will be to attract the very best, the most capable individuals who have the highest likelihood of squeaking out every so thin margins of success and thus save lives. I think both strains of thought allow us to countenance the cartel like nature of the AMA and higher medical costs. The first idea is based off a common idea of fairness. We think that the harder you work and the better you do, the more you deserve (remuneratively). Med school is one of the few professions where this sort of ideal actually pans out given that the worst students aren't going to get in and then the lowest tier med students are not getting into the choice specialties. It's the culmination of our ideal of meritocracy. The second notion seems to be based on the American culture of wanting more, more, more. We think that each of us and each of our loved ones is a special snowflake and that they deserve care that is perfect in all situations, not just care than is perfectly tailored to their level of need. We want that doctor who is not just perfect in 99.5% of cases, but someone who we think is perfect in 99.9% of cases. Both of these strains of thought allow for high levels of bipartisan support for cartel like behavior in the medical field. As Major said, most countries seemingly train their doctors in less time and get almost equal results. That's because they get the 99.5% while we get the 99.9%. In exchange for those couple extra fractions of a percentage point, we pay a large premium. It's the same cultural perspective that fuels many of the other costs in the medical field. Those high premiums allow us to saddle up and coming doctors with the debt, under the assumption that eventually they will be able to pay it off. Those up and coming doctors like LosPollosHermanos who are saddled with all that debt come out knowing that they need to pay. They acted rationally in that they relied on the promise of their future salary. They in turn get funneled back into the cartel and work to keep barriers to entry as high as possible. For them to act in any other way would be preposterous, it would be severely against their interests. I don't think it is the only way to do things, but maybe based on the inertia of our culture and history we cannot do it any other way.
Meritocracy: The best should command the most income. Each should command what The value they provide is. But it's not based on fairness or value, But on artificial constraints forcing Americans to pay much much more Because the scarcity. More people should be able to reach their dreams Of being a doctor and not being kept out so the few can earn much more. That doesn't sound fair at all to me. As for the 99.5% to 99.9%, for 50% than most countries pay physicians One would hope for a sliver of increased margin of error. However that .5% allegedly is helping to bankrupt our nation. And I keep hearing about this life and death drama nonsense whereas A majority of doctors don't deal with that and have the 'stress' of that. Fact is PhDs go to more school, I-bankers work more hours for much longer, Policemen have to tell loved ones about death , military personnel have More stress being shot at and most peoples student debt Return on investment Is atrocious next to med school.
I agree. Terminate all Unions. Pay each person based on the value they provide, instead of length of time served.
I want to cry for you so bad. You have to only make $45 thousand a year for 3-5 years before being guaranteed (No other profession has such guarantees of income levels) All top 9 salaries in the country! Most I-bankers and lawyers work 80+ hours a week For a lot more than 5 years. You sound so entitled.
So, do you know what the lifestyle of a resident is like and what it involves...did you really just throw bankers and lawyers in there? Yea, like I said, you have no idea what you're talking about. Go shadow a resident for a day. I said 80, but it goes unreported and people work far more than that.
anyone can be a cop, you have to go to school for almost a decade to be a doctor. the more education your job requires the higher your salary is going to be.
Who cares. If more people could do it then they wouldn't get paid so much. Supply and demand. Start focusing on improving yourself and not worrying about how well other people have it. You'll enjoy life more.
I enjoy life thoroughly. I'm fortunate that I make more than most Doctors and now wish to use my knowledge and influence To effect change for the better. I believe in the laws of supply and demand throughout my soul. This unfortunately is not that. It is crony capitalism on a tremendous scale By as Milton Friedman called the most powerful trade union In the United States. Like Ethanol subsidizes corn producers for the benefit of a few, So does the AMA with the artificial lack of doctors in the US hurt all of us Including those that dreamed of becoming doctors only to have their hopes Dashed in order to keep a shortage to keep salaries high. That is a wrong that I cannot overlook.
Rocketman, you sound jealous. Why dont you look into becoming a doctor? You can go be a doctor and give your money away to those people you say deserve it more
This. There is a lot of people out there worried about what other people make. Supply and demand dominates any free society. If you ever wonder why a doctor makes more than a burger flipper, its simple supply and demand. If there were unlimited skilled doctors, then they would be paid as much as a burger flipper. If not too many people knew how to flip a burger, burger flippers would be making millions and people like rocketman would be depressed about it :grin:
That's not the case for good soldiers and firefighters because to get good you have to do certain things, like gain knowledge and experience while doing other things, like staying alive. In the wildland arena, the incident hours a firefighter must work to reach a major leadership position is typically about 15,000, and that does not count class time or other parts of the job. Total, that's about the same as a regular MD. Only difference is the MD does it full-time for school and residency while it may take a firefighter 25 years to rack up that level of experience on incidents.
I'm not one to put blame soley on Doctors, but why do you think that is the case? Think about it. Charges are inflated across the board in the medical industry. To be fair to doctors, I think a big part of the problem is litigation and medical malpractice suit and the insurance doctors have to take out because of them. But we are a sue-happy country so, oh wells.. Another thing, have you ever shadowed a I-Banker or Big Law associate? I didn't think so.
You just need to be 18 and have no criminal record to be in the military. To be a firefighter in some departments all you need is a high school diploma or GED. Some departments are more serious and require you at least have EMT-B or higher plus have gone through some fire fighting academy with that cert as well. EMT-B can be earned in one semester. Firefighter Cert can be earned in about the same time. 1 year of training vs 8 years of school plus 2-3 years of residential supervision from an experienced attending to make sure you actually know your stuff. Each resident must then go spend an extended period of time with each specialist like Gastroenterology, Pulmonology, Cardiology, Surgery, Family Practice, Neurology, Infectious Disease, Nephrology/Renal, Urology, Dermatology, etc. They gotta go through all those departments attendings and earn passing marks in order to become a general practice doctor or then choose to specialize in one of those fields. Plus they accrue hundreds of thousands in debt from student loans and general cost of living while dedicating hours of their lives studying medical material. Joining the military or becoming a firefighter is easy compared to what a doctor goes through.
Not even. Had a friend who spent almost a decade becoming a physician. His brother won a lottery ticket, bought a Subway chain which took off in his piddly little town in Oklahoma and now owns five of them. Dude is a multimillionaire with income coming in everyday. He has a high school diploma. The brother was lucky, but even a doctor at most is gonna earn between $250-450,000 a year. I wish I had that salary mind you but the hours they put in, they definitely earn their salary IMO.
The policeman/military was to counter the notion of the stress and telling people that there love ones are dead as a notion for having a cartel and artificially high salaries. If it is education and debt, then most PhD's do more schooling and apprenticeships in most focus areas, are considered more educated yet do not have a stronghold on how many people can become PhD's in order to inflate the salaries of all.
What you don't understand in your ignorance is that yes "SUPPLY AND DEMAND DOMINATES ANY FREE SOCIETY", but there is an incredibly powerful trade union by the name of the American Medical Association that restricts supply and demand. They restrict the natural supply of physicians and force them to be the bottleneck in much of the healthcare system. This lack of natural supply means more demand and therefore higher than equilibrium salaries. That means that everyone paying insurance or going to a doctor's visit is paying 30% more continually because of a cartel like situation in this country. Free Market Loving people should be horrified by this as should Left Wing people as ordinary Americans are forced to pay more to subsidize an already wealthy class of people.
