I disagree a lot with this post. First of all....Andersen is a crappy player. To say "So-and-so will never be better than him..." is a stretch especially for a 22 yr old guy who has yet to play significant minutes for this team. The 'intangibles' argument can't be used here, he's played no significant minutes. You can't really judge things like this in a meaningless game, which is what garbage time is. Also I disagree with that. Look at what Jordan Hill did in summerleage. Those are pretty impressive numbers, you make it seem like he just went there and averaged 2pts and 3 rebs or something. He averaged 14-8 in summerleague, that's not scrub numbers. And all of the other impact Rooks this year have similar numbers. Those boards went right to him because he boxed his man out, IDK where people are saying "He didn't box out..." I saw him box out every time he had a chance to. The strentgh is a legitimate complaint, but hell the dude has to be stronger than Andersen who gets pushed around every single night. Shot shaky? How many shots has he taken...6 or 5? Doesn't have passion? How can you grade this on garbage time? I told people the same thing when they said in Mario's first preseason about that stuff. That stuff you can't judge over 2 garbage time appearance. That's stuff you judge over offseason. Hill came into College the same way, and he improved and improved and improved. That should be proof of the work he's willing to put in. Sometimes people judge too much on body language, hell Kevin Martin out there at times looks... Just give this guy sometime. Adelman's system can't be learn overnight and all these other guys except Chase took some time to show us what they got, and none of them WOWed us in Garbage time.
Translation: I found what I was looking for I'd suggest that there's more than "room for error" in your estimation - there's tremendous room for error when you judge someone based on a presumed assumption and then assume that they fit your assumption based on a miniscule sample size. I guess the ball just kept "falling right to him" all the way through college (more than 11 times per game!) this guy must have extreme luck I guess?
Where is all the negativity coming from on this guy? He's been around for five or six games and last night was the first time he's received more than a couple of minutes. That's hardly a decent sample size. I also must have been watching a different game because I was impressed with how quick he is and thought he did a good job on the defensive boards against Toronto. Yes, he's a bit of a project, and he hasn't been playing basketball that long. He needs to work on his strength and his consistency on both ends of the court, but he has a very high ceiling and the coaches have said they were surprised by some of the things he could do. For me, that's good enough for now. Let's cut the kid a break and see how he develops this off season.
My intention is not to be negative. My intention is to state my truth as I see it. You are free to disagree as you have but just know I have no assumptions about the kid. I didn't even know who he was. I paid very little attention to him in the draft because we didn't have a pick. I only started really following him because of rumors we were getting him in a trade. I watched every bit of film on youtube included some college highlights and a couple of archived Knicks games. And I found his play consistently the same. It's as if his godgiven talent was enough to dominate in college but let him down in the pros. You can argue that there is not enough of a sample to know and you may be right but I can only go but what I've seen and I am not impressed. The biggest disappointment is he looks just as bad/average now as he did when he started the season. That is not true about guys like Taj Gibson and Hansbrough. As for him getting those rebounds it was not minimize his rebounds for the sake of putting him down. It was just to point out that is the kind of rebounder he is. And that is a poor rebounder. Don't believe me just look at his stats. For a guy who is in the game primarily to play d and rebound his rebound per 40 is pathetic. Yeah you can argue it's a small sample but that is why I point out how he rebounds. Everything I see of him shows me he does not have a clue about rebounding on the NBA level. he doesn't box. Doesn't follow the ball. Doesn't have any instincts about rebounding and doesn't appear the tenacity to go after the ball in traffic. That's what I see and nothing has shown me a whole bunch different. Of course he can improve and I hope he does. And I could be wrong and I hope I am but my preliminary evaluation of him is a third string player for his career much like Melvin Ely. And Melvin Ely looked much better than him his rookie year. It's just my opinion but I trust my opinion more than yours and more than most of our scouts. Afterall I picked Tayshaun Prince over Bostian Nachbar.
So you've got one thing right in the last 10 years? That's hardly anything to write home about. I was on the bandwagon for Hill and Thompson as 'late gems' in last years draft - looks like Thompson snuck up a bit, but that's more recent history than Boki Snackbar... It's hard to hear you talking about a guy who averaged 11 rebounds per game in college as someone who just so happens to stumble across a rebounnd. I'm gonna disagree with you - and either you get a second one right, or you don't! I guess we'll just wait it out and see. But for me a 6'11 guy who can rebound, stick the 18' (which he did frequently at college), block shots, and is actually athletic - that's a guy who is well worth a long hard look. Not everyone makes it in the NBA, but if he doesn't it won't be because he hasn't got the abilities - those boxes are all checked. Can he learn a system? that's about the only question left.
Doc Nuggie you are a little slow tonight. My point is that there is no evidence that he can rebound at any decent rate for a big whose primary goal is to play d. He has a weak shot doesn't have a clue how to pass and turnovers the ball too much. If you like go right ahead and don't let me stop you. I would ask you to look at some film before proclaim him to be someone he hasn't shown himself to be. Ah what's the point. Just remember there is a reason why poor rebounding poor shooting Jeffires gets more minutes than him when it counts.
So you have to go back to the 2002 draft to find something you were right about? That's not a good record, if you have to skip 2003-2009 drafts also. That's 1 out of 8.
I don't see how this gives you a better analysis of him than anyone else here. And at one point Mike James and Bobby Jackson got more minutes than Aaron Brooks. How does that prove anything? How is there no evidence? Why won't you watch some of his summer league games?
this is one of those threads that i click on to see the first unread...then i see that there is a whole bunch of short stories/novels. so i don't read anything, i just scroll down to the bottom and click to go back to the GARM. sorry but.. BTW to answer to OP's queston, Jordan Hill is on the pine. But you got a good look at him Monday night.
Okay I didn't say my analysis better just that I did some. Did you? I saw something in Brooks just like I saw something in Budinger and Landry and Dorsey. You could say I was wrong with Dorsey. I think I am still right on his talent but he just isn't brightest cookie in the bag. Outside of the Rockets I liked Roy (no brainer) in the draft and really liked Rajon Rondo. In this coming Draft I'll give you someone like Hill who will drafted lower but will immediately come in and contribute more. And that's Greg Monroe. He may not be as athletic but he will produce more. Guys I also like Derrick favors (no Brainer) who has had a slightly disappointing freshman year but his natural physique and athleticism will be better then most PF in the next level. Cousins is a star with a nutcase brain. I like Patterson Better Ed Davis. Ed Davis has had less talent around him and could have done more because they needed him but didn't Where as Patterson hasn't performed as well because Cousin is been so dominant but Patterson will be better than Davis, and I bet Davis goes higher. Aminu is good and will go higher than both but he is a tweener like Landry with better handles but not as explosive. My surprise pick is Larry Sanders. Everybody talks about Jordan hill being a late starter only starting in the 9th grade but Sanders only started in the 11th grade but already he has a better shot and has a better per 40 rebound rate not to mention he can block shots much better than Hill. Elias Harris will become a Brandon Roy Lite at the small forward if he gets his 3 point shot down and will probaly available as a non lottery pick. I would mention Hassan Whiteside he has blown up this season but he won't be available when we pick. So there you have it. Every player I mentioned will be better than Hill and you can probably throw in Udoh too. Judge me on these guys and comeback next year and tell me how wrong I was.
theses are all of your assumptions including that one ^ The very little he did play last game he proved he can rebound and box out.
Well you're making your analysis fact when you say things like "He can't shoot, can't box out...etc etc." Umm yes, if watching a few highlights and a couple of Knicks games count as analysis than yes...but I'm actually factoring in what Hill has done in the Summerleague I guess, Hill played better his last year in college than Monroe is playing now. I'm really not going to get into next years draft class and comparing Hill to someone else who started playing late. That really isn't fair to Hill as each player is different. Just because someone has progressed faster than Hill doesn't mean Hill can not progress the same rate or eventually never get better. I'd rather judge him to what he's doing right now. Last night he boxed out his man whenever he could, Knocked down a open mid range shot (something you're saying he just CAN'T do...) and displayed some face-up ability. I really don't know what you're looking for in GT. It's not like we were running any plays, it was basically 5 guys doing their damnedest to prove they can help the team...and it's not a good situation for most players.
fixed He also hit a jumper. He hasn't done much really as a Rocket. Let him pan out then you can fire away. His athleticism isn't being shown at its heights with him sitting on the bench for the majority of the year. He's probably rusty they need to throw him in the dleague. Like Dorsey, after the Rockets gave him a boost in confidence in the DLeague. He picked up the system and he was starting to show ability to defend the middle/grab high rebounds within 2 games back.
The fact that he was picked 8th + TMac only fans still left on this board = posts that are generally negative, no matter what angle.
Okay. I will concede 3 things. I have not watched him enough to have a complete analysis on him. I am not a pro scout.(oops I am NOT a proscout but I am a terrible typer) And players can improve. So with that said the verdict is clearly still out on him. I can only say IMHO I don't see him as the answer to our PF needs either for backup or starter. And also I want so to be wrong. If I am I will start a new thread at some point admit it and apologizing for my stupid analysis. P.S. I said I see good things in Budinger but I want to qualify that. For him to be a starter he needs to toughen up and become more agressive. I think he can but without that Budinger is really nothing more than a role player.
