Where does James Harden rate All Time in shooting guards ?

Honestly not sure if you're this stupid. I didn't answer bc there is no answer. Every player has won a ring with teammates. The question should be, how many rings has Kobe won as the best player on his team? He's won a ring as the best player and that's all that matters.

 

Rightmost column Top WinShare both Gasol in both Championship years

 

I meant to say the last category on the right, or top WS. I know you don't like that metric because it's not saying what you want it to say here, but it is what it is.

 

Westbrook doesn't play defense though. And Westbrook has had Durant/Harden/ibaka...

Look at Oladipo now... Good in Orlando, crap in OKC, good in Indiana.

Westbrook is a loser.

 

You mean topping in WinShare?

Has Harden ever played with someone who topped him in WinShares like Shaq and Gasol did in the championships Kobe benefitted from?

 

Arguably he did so once, and on the most stacked team in the NBA. Is that really what makes Kobe great? So if he had been on the Bucks instead of the stacked Lakers, he'd have been nothing special?

 

WB is a loser because he's a selfish chucker

 

The narrative was that he did and that was why he was better than Harden.....you know, similar to your narrative about Kobe. The numbers don't support what you are saying any more than they support the narrative pushed by the Westbrook supporters.

 

I'm on mobile, so maybe it's showing differently. I'll take a look later. Regardless, every great that has won, has done so with stars next to him.

And when it comes to comparing Kobe with Harden... Show me win shares during Hardens championship runs first. When that happens, Harden can be in the discussion.

 

Ah, so it comes down to Kobe being on stacked teams that carried him to the championship and that's why you think Kobe is better than Harden. I figured as much. So what you are saying is that if he spent his entire career with the Bucks, that Kobe would be significantly less great even if his performance was exactly the same since he'd never be on a championship team.

Solid logic.

 

you want apples to apples right?

so we have data on harden having seasons where he was the clear leader on winshares of his team

and kobe having a couple of seasons when he was he clear leader in winshares of his team

why not compare those seasons? just for kicks. you've got nothing to lose if Kobe is really all that great amirite?

 

No, I wouldn't say being supported by Gasol and Odom is "stacked"... LeBron being supported my Wade and Bosh or Irving and Love... Thats stacked.

Odom came off the bench for the Lakers. He wasn't a superstar, just a very good role player.

 

Gasol was a 10+ win player every year for the Lakers, Bynum was a 8 win player during that time as well.
Only twice has a LeBron James teammate been a 10+ win player: Bosh in 2010-11 and Irving in 2014-15. Gasol at his best with the Lakers was worth 14.6 wins, second behind LeBron in the NBA that season.

 

Bc you can't calculate true defense with numbers. There is no number for that to make it a stat other than certain,limited data you can pull. It doesn't nearly give an accurate depiction of what's taking place on the court. There is a reason Kobe was so well respected by his peers and those following him... Bc they know what he was on both sides of the court.

And to be truly great, you have to do it in the postseason.

And the reason I say all this is bc I've been in touch and discussed this with actual NBA players who played with and against Kobe. I've never been a fan of kobe and always loved to watch him lose, but it's really not a discussion when it comes to Kobe's status as an all time SG... At least top 3.

 

Do you realize that Bynums numbers were inflated bc of Kobe...these random win share stats don't take into consideration that he got easy buckets bc of Kobe. Similar to Capela being statistically rated very high offensively..
But it's 100% bc of Harden.

 

I'm just talking about results

when kobe was the clear the best or by by far the leader in winshares of his team in the regular season

how may wins did is team amass and how far in the playoffs did they get?

 

Then perhaps you are too young to remember the state of the league back then. The Lakers were the most ridiculously stacked team in the league in those days. In fact, it's those Lakers teams that led to the rise of super teams to compete with them, first Boston then later Miami and so on.

Also, looking back on your talk about Kobe as a defender, if you look at defensive rating, Kobe never had a higher defensive rating that James Harden currently does past the age of 25 which is well before the post Shaq titles. Every way you look at it, the talk about Kobe's defense was more myth than reality.

 

Well that certainly is convenient because there absolutely aren't any numbers that would support your claims about Kobe. In fact pretty much every metric would suggest that your claims are inaccurate or wildly overstated.

 

The Lakers teams post Shaq were not stacked.

Sorry bud, but I regularly hung around nba players during that time and know what was up. I had insights that most don't get. Ask most of the guys that played in the same era as Kobe and most put him up there as an all time great... It's not just media hype that places him among the best to play the game.

 

I get that but odom and gasol weren't guaranteed champions


Kobe gets a lot of credit for those two rings

Harden hasn't gotten out the first round without other stars. Last season Harden took it to another level but they should have beaten San Antonio. Skill wise Harden is better but Kobe would never have a game like that Spurs game.

Neither one is Jordan or Magic.