Somewhere in the Top 10 or 15 range, potentially could end up a top 5 or 10 before the season ends if he keeps progressing and will probably be top 5 if that progress continues into the middle or end of the next season.
You may not watch their games, but Nene and Brook Lopez are leading the league in PER among centers, which means they are at least way much better on offense. Noah just had triple double last week. When healthy Bynum, Bogut are much better overall... Asik's playing very well last few games. However Morey said his help defense slipped considerably from last year in last interview. If he can keep this up for the full season, he'll be a top 10 to 15 center.
No arguments with those. Jefferson, Varejao and Bosh are borderline and probably impacts the game similarly to Asik or slightly less. Bosh had been historically much better, but according to the numbers have dropped off quite a bit this year for some reason. Verajao is a very good player, but putting up big numbers on a bad team. He is better on offense but Asik had a much bigger impact on D. Overall a wash. Jefferson is also not good enough on offense to make up for his lack of D. Lopez isn't close. Check out this website. RAPM is probably one of the most comprehensive stats I've seen at measuring a player's effect on winning. http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/2013.html Asik is ranked right around top 10 for centers who play enough minutes. And for the future the only young guys clearly better are Dwigt, Noah and Gasol. If Asik can just get his offense to passable(something Chuck was able to do), he would be right there near the elite. But right now it is still a big liability. His defense is already elite, a lot due to being a beast on the defensive boards and limiting second chance points. Actually, his help defense which has been a bit disappointing this year was spectacular the past two games, so maybe he has upside there as well.
You may not watch his games, but Nene has been coming off the bench for a terrible Wizards team due to injury and just starts chucking shots left and right--often when the game is already decided. Of course he would have a high PER under those circumstances. In fact you've managed to unveil a major criticism of the PER statistic itself. But that's all beside the point. Nene is not better than Omer Asik even when Nene is healthy--which hasn't been at all this season.
Asik has clearly out performed Noah twice Gasol twice Chandler one out of two times Etc... Actually it's much easier to put a list together of centers that have outplayed Asik. That is a very very short list. Howard twice and Chandler once. That's all I can come up with off the top of my head. I think the real test is what other center would you would trade Asik for. Lopez? Oh he'll no! Not now not ever. Gortat? Nope Chandler? If all things were equal, maybe but I think Asik is almost as good overall Dwight? Yes Noah? Nope, Asik has either out performed or dominated him twice. Bogut? Great center when healthy but when is he ever healthy? Nope. Bynum? See Bogut? Yes Bynum when healthy is better but he may never be healthy again..... So, nope. I guess I don't really care much about PER in this case, I am much more concerned with the eye test. Almost every single night Asik out plays the Center on the other team, regardless if that guy is named Horford, Noah, Gasol etc... So I guess I value that a lot more than others.
I initially voted top five, but thinking about it, I'm thinking more in the 8 to 10 range. I would rate the following above him in no particular order: Howard Chandler M. Gasol Noah Horford Lopez Jefferson Varejao Although I defenitely think by either then of this year or by mid next year he can be better than Noah, Horford, Lopez, Jefferson and Varejao. I would rate him above: Cousins Nene Monroe Ibaka (although he averages more points a game and IMO, he's as good as he is by playing with Westbrook and Durant) McGee Jordan Bogut (only because he's not healthy) Bynum (only because he's not healthy and probably never will be) I think if he can develop a post game with some offensive moves, he can move into the top five easily.
Miami has the best player in the world, a top 3 shooting guard and top 3 power forward... We are not close to that...
Lopez puts up 18 a night, and averages twice as many blocks as Asik does. To say he's not better or, even more absurdly, ever, is kinda ridiculous. And because Asik out played Noah twice, doesn't mean he is better. I hate Noah more then anyone being a UK fan, but he's a all nba defensive player, averages 2 blocks a game, and nearly 5 assists a game. He's the best passing center in the league by far, and he just had a triple double. And he shoots 82% from the FT line. Asik isn't in the same ball park as Noah.
Omer is in the top dozen centers.... 11/12/1.5/1/1 and great picks and defense make him a very good player. Brook Lopez is a poor defender and rebounder... Not sure he is great.
Asik is incredibly streaky offensively. Top 10 for now, but top 5 potential easily if he can improve his ability to catch the ball (and, a bit less importantly, his FT's).
Top 10. I would never take an "offensive" center who can't rebound over a center who's good at rebounding and defending the paint. Asik would make huge impact if he was on any other championship contending team.
Concerning Noah, there is no doubt he is a more offensively talented player... But his production does not back it up. Noah is playing 10 mins a game more than Omer, shoots lower % from the floor and only scores 2 more points a game more. Noah is a very good passer though. On Defense Noah blocks slightly more points but Noah, because of his frame is pushed around inside. Omer is the better overall defender. It is closer than people think.
If these are our only two criteria, then Asik is way up there. But if our expectations are for some offensive skills, then other centers nudge their way ahead of him. Lopez would be one of those guys, since he has the post moves and shooting touch to be a 20+ PPG post scorer and #1 option while facing routine double-teams, just as he did when the Nets were still in New Jersey. Lopez's defense and rebounding have only gotten better this season as well--about what you'd figure for a 24 year-old who just spent most of last year sitting out. If we're not splitting hairs over the PF/C designations, then old fossils like Duncan and Garnett are still ahead of Asik as well.
In terms of impact this year, you may be right. But I was going more in terms of what they would be worth in general, and in that sense IMO offense is more precious defense. So even if, say, Asik is impacting wins at the same level as Bosh, I'd take Bosh as the "better" player. Future rankings, I somewhat agree with you. Although there are some youngsters who can shoot up the chart, like a Larry Sanders or a Myers Leonard.
What is killing Asik right now are TO's. When comparing him to the other C's in the league he is leading all but Howard in TO's, which is killing his PER. Though it should be noted that he is killing every C in TRB%, and measures favorable in DWS. 2 things the Rockets signed him to do, rebound and play defense.
It's actually not close at all between Asik and Noah once the totality of Noah's game is considered. Joakim Noah is arguably the best help defender in the NBA, possessing a strange combination of length and agility. I've never heard the "Noah's frame" remark before, since point in fact, Joakim Noah is incredibly, deceptively strong and definitely knows how to box a man out and get extracurricular on the blocks. He's also a far, far superior passer than Asik, and often functions as the hub through which the Bulls run their offense--similar to what the Pistons do with Greg Monroe to take advantage of Monroe's passing ability. Noah has also practiced his bizarre whirlwind jumpshot for years at this point, and it will go down at 15 feet if he is left unguarded. The same cannot be said of Asik. Noah's free throw shooting is also better... ...I mean...he's just a better player, in almost every observable way. Note that there is no shame in that. Joakim Noah is better than the vast majority of NBA centers right now, so whatever, we can praise Noah without feeling like we're diminishing Asik too much. Plus, Asik has the better contract! Don't forget that! :grin:
