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When you don't have a true point, your superstars suffer disfunctionality

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by basketballholic, Apr 27, 2016.

  1. basketballholic

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    Didn't say Howard could do that anymore. What I said was we lack a premier distributor that can feed Howard and Harden and make them mesh together. We lack a distributor that understands the effort big men go through to defend and board and run the floor and gets the ball to them consistently enough for them to get their bunnies.

    The biggest problem is a one-dimensional system that lacks ball movement and player movement combined with the team superstar being the de facto coach and controlling style of play.

    Saying we won 56 games last season with the same bunch is over simplifying. We had Josh Smith on last year's team making random plays, being unpredictable and basically not cooperating with the "get the ball to Harden" approach. Smoive single-himself led us out of the second round while our superstar sat on the bench. Wouldn't you like to know why Smoove left us last summer? It'll eventually come out. The random unpredictability of Smoove drove us to 56 wins my friend. He knew how to get the ball to his big man consistently.

    This is really not worthy of a response. I have never said nor do I feel that the offense should run through Dwight. I just got done saying the offense needs to run through a premier point that is a superior distributor/playmaker to Harden. Don't know how much plainer I can make it. Dwight is not good enough to run the offense through. And Harden is not a good enough distributor/playmaker/ball handler to be the point. Away with you and your stupid shtick. Go suck sour eggs and find somebody else's words to distort.

    Yeah. I said point....not point guard.

    Orlando had multiple players that could distribute. And Hedo was good at it. That was an example of a multi-faceted offense. Jameer was the first distributor/playmaker for them when he was healthy. And his numbers showed it. Hedo was the second best distributor and Jameers injury finally caught up to them in the Finals. But that was a multi-faceted team that actually had 3 distributors including Dwight who was in his prime and able to make plays.

    We have nowhere near that capability. We are one-dimensional. All an opponent has to do is water down Hardens efficiency by turning him over and getting him to force some shots are we're barbeque chicken.

    Dwight deserves touches second to nobody on this current roster sans Harden. Look at what our guys are doing right now. We've ordered a case of red paint for our rims because of all the bricks hitting them. Get real here.

    This is why we need a real distributor.

    Once again I said point, not point guard.

    Yeah. That's not my point. My point is that we don't have a point to make Howard and Harden jive.

    Point
    ...not point guard. Pippen was the point in Chicago. Biups and Thomas for Detroit. Magic for the Lakers. Celtics had great distributors and many of them. I could go on. But needless to say championship teams have a premier distributor that is a superior distributor to Harden.

    By making hacking non-consequential because we are so far ahead at hacking time. By being able to run a smooth, efficient offense when Harden is sitting.
     
    #21 basketballholic, Apr 27, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2016
    1 person likes this.
  2. Rocketeer4Life

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    Rockets will never win a championship with Harden as the point guard. But Harden HAS to have the ball and be the point guard. Thereupon, Rockets will never be a champion.
     
  3. dmoneybangbang

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    Nah. We just need a good second offensive option. You folks severely lack context, I've never seen a group of people so ignorant about how the Rocket's offense has performed.

    We have been over 500 for 10 years straight. We don't need to reinvent the wheel here.... Christ.
     
  4. SF3isBack!!

    SF3isBack!! Member

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    People on this board lack context. Stats are useless if you don't know how to interpret them. You have to take into account many other factors. The eye test can fool you but not as much as stats can.
     
  5. jevjnd

    jevjnd Contributing Member

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    You know, this is extremely fair and points out that management is in fact at fault. Let's be fair, however. Morey was inexperienced as a premier front office general manager but has done an admirable job regardless. We never did really have the right three points shooters as you pointed out and we never did have another playmaker. The current situation is unfair to Harden. Let's all hope that we can turn things around. It's sad that it cost us Dwight Howard. He's better than what he showed during his time here. I don't speak for all of us, but my sentiments are that I'll miss the big guy. I haven't felt quite the way that I feel since the Francis and Mobley years, where I really did like the players, but we weren't going anywhere. Hopefully we'll see better days soon. Cheers for this post.
     
  6. BackdoorHarden

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    So the past 25 years, only 4 legit PG(Parker, Curry, Billup, Isiah. I guess you can include Rondo for that year) that helped their team win a championship.


    the 21 out of 25 championships were won with Pat Bev type PG.
     
  7. basketballholic

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    The Pat Bevs were not at the point offensively.. Once again for emphasis, I said at the point, not at point guard. The point can be any of the 1, 2, 3 and even the 4 on occasion.

    The primary point for the Jordan Bulls was Pippen. Pippen handled the ball and initiated their offense from the top, helped Jordan and the team keep the turnovers down, and he fed Jordan and everybody else the basketball in scoring position.

    The primary point for the Piston teams was Thomas and Billups. Thomas is the single championship point most like Harden with his high turnover count but even he didn't turn it over as much as Harden does, and he got way more of his turnovers back on the defensive end, and he played alongside other playmakers like Dumars that could handle and dish.

    Multiple playmakers on the floor together in a staple of championship teams as well as a lead playmaker that is efficient with the dribble and feeds his big men. Those are staples we haven't had except for brief moments. And we have avoided acquiring playmakers, eschewing them for guys that can only spot-up, catch and shoot, and supposedly play defense. Ariza is a disaster both handling and passing the basketball. He couldn't make a play if his life depended on it. Brewer and Bev are headless chickens. They can dribble the ball around tangibly across and around the court but they can't find guys consistently and when they try to their turnover count blows up. Terry is a spot up shooter. And we gave up a first rounder on a guy who is basically finished as a player whom James wanted to play with.

    Let's get real here. This franchise is now at a crossroads. We have a superstar shooting guard who is now miscast as the primary point. Not only is he the primary point, he is the only playmaker on the entire roster. And he should be the primary scorer and secondary point on a championship capable team.

    We don't have, and haven't had the great glue guy, the guy that could have made the chemistry work between Harden and Howard or between Harden and the whole team. We've come this far simply by riding Harden to the finish line and a little bit of luck. But this style of play with a scorer attempting to be the point and totally dominating the basketball is not going to produce a championship. I'm sorry to say. We've got to get the other elements to have chemistry, to make this a team instead of just individual talents thrown together like salt and sugar without any water.
     
  8. RocketsFido

    RocketsFido Member

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    The league has changed, nowadays you need a scoring PG who can also create for others. All the real contenders have one. One of Morey's biggest mistake was not signing Lowry immediately when he entertained Houston during his FA.
     
  9. RocketsFido

    RocketsFido Member

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    Mike Conley is the only PG who fits that criteria that we can sign in the offseason. The dude also won the 2016 Sportsmanship Award, literally could not find a better teammate than that. He'd probably be willing to do whatever we ask of him here.

    Harden will have to adjust his game too though and be more of a spot up shooter instead of handling the ball all the time. Didn't work with Lawson, it might be a risk to try another similar experiment..
     
  10. Yung-T

    Yung-T Member

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    What's the point of having a true PG when Harden demands the ball and doesn't want to play off-ball?

    Also don't think that any good PG would want to play for a Harden team.
     
  11. basketballholic

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    What all championship teams have is ball movement. You gotta have scorers (more than one) and you have to have playmakers/passers (more than one) with your best playmaker/passer being efficient with distributing the basketball to his teammates. He has to generate efficient looks for all the other guys and do it while keeping turnovers in check.
     
  12. aelliott

    aelliott Contributing Member

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    Billups and Pippen weren't "premier distributors". Who were the premier distributors on any of the Tony Parker Spurs teams? How about on any of the Kobe Laker teams?

    The Garrnett Celtics didn't have a premier distributor either. They had several guys that could pass but nobody was exceptional. If that's your definition then all you have to do is add some passing to our roster.

    Kind of interesting that you make this bold statement about having to have a premier distributor and then come back and redefine 'premier distributor' to mean a guy that has 5 assists per game.


    Right. Because all of the good teams never play close games. Again you're trying to backpedal on what you said.

    Golden State just had the most wins in NBA history and they played close games but if he Rockets follow your formula then we'll never have close games?

    Did you not see us hacking Bogut, Ezeli and McAdoo this series? How come Chris Paul can't prevent DeAndre Jordan from being hacked? Is CP3 not a premier distributor like Chauncey Billups and Tony Parker?
     
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  13. oogie boogie

    oogie boogie Member

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    Josh Smith drove us home to 56 wins because he could get the ball to Dwight? Didn't Dwight only play 41 games? How did he get the ball to him those 15 games? Probably could even add at least 8 more games to that since Dwight played a good couple of games before Josh was picked up.

    Look, Josh was great last season. No denying. A secondary ball handler is great to have ESPECIALLY when he can rebound, defend and even stretch the floor (looking at you, Draymond) which was everything Smoove did or tried his best to do. Also game ball does go to him in game 6, but listen. You're acting like Smith hitting clutch step back 3s is the norm. There's a reason why SVG cut the dude, and there's a reason why he got signed late in the summer. And there's a reason why Doc gave up on him too.

    He's just not that great for his playstyle. Sure, he helps when he's on but how often is he on? Smith being able to lob pass the ball to Dwight isn't the reason Houston won 56 games... it was a mixture of all our guys player tough defense for a good portion of the season and also giving their part offensively. The team was solid all around. It just wasn't Smoove waving off Harden so he can throw a no look behind the back, off the shot clock alley oop to Dwight with 32 seconds left on the cougars shot clock.

    I dont care why he left last summer because i 100 percent know that you for sure dont know. he didn't lead us to 56 wins. The Rockets already had good record before he got here. They already had 54 wins the season before with Parsons and Lin. It's more about having multiple willing passers than just one guy who can pass back and forth.
     
  14. basketballholic

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    Sorry, Billups and Pippen were premier distributors.

    You are defining distribution simply by assist numbers. That's just one aspect of distribution. It's wrong not to consider the other aspects of distribution/facilitation. Do you know what a hockey assist is? Probably not. Because our team doesn't get hardly any of those because of our one-dimensional style. Not to mention turnovers. A player could average 10 assists a game. But that Durant make him an efficient, premier distributor. If he averages 7 turnovers and in the process of getting his 10 assists he constantly throws the ball to guys that are in their low-efficiency scoring zones, where the defense just sits and lets them jack up low efficiency shots then those 10 assists don't have much positive value. They are offset by turnovers and low efficiency looks.

    That means a 10 assist guy could be a mediocre or even poor distributor.

    The Garnett Celtics had Rondo feeding the hall-of-fame trio of Pierce-Allen-Garnett. Don't know why you can't see Rondo's glue-man role on that team. Dude averaged over 5 assists with only 1.9 turnovers during the regular season. And he offset 1.7 of those turnovers with straight steals. And he got back even more turnovers on the defensive end by drawing offensive fouls. Oh, and he probably averaged around 8 hockey assists a game as well. That's the definition of a glue guy.

    Then in the playoffs he upped his assist totals even more while keeping his turnover count down and mire than offsetting all his turnovers with steals and offensive fouls drawn against his opponents because he was D'ing up.


    Yes, Chris Paul is a premier distributor and he makes hacking DeAndre have minimal effect because he can create effective, efficient looks for every player on the floor even when DeAndre is sitting.
     
  15. Zergling

    Zergling Member

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    Sure they can. They just need a better supporting cast. Better shooters, defenders, rebounders. They need to get younger and more talented
     
  16. REEKO_HTOWN

    REEKO_HTOWN I'm Rich Biiiiaaatch!

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    Says Micheal Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Dwayne Wade, Hakeem Olajuwon.

    True point guards are overrated. Now shooters? That's another story.

    All these players succeeded because they sucked in Defenses and had good shooters to make defenses pay.

    We need shooters
     
  17. rocketsballin

    rocketsballin Member

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    dont need a pg just need more than one player, who happens to be your best scorer, to make plays. thats among the most stupidest ****in things you can do.
     
  18. rm365

    rm365 Contributing Member

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    Great posts by bballholic.

    I just wanted to add having a glue guy implies the ability to reign in Harden.

    Would he be willing to play off the ball? Make cuts? Hustle on defense?

    You could have a Chris Paul talent level point guard on this team. If the established top dog isn't willing to play in a superior system it won't mean anything.

    Also a lot of the teams mentioned had exceptional team ball movement even if their starting point guard didn't average over 10 apg. The Bulls, the Spurs, etc.

    The Rockets often look lost on both offense and defense.

    Also, everyone seems to be making Howard out to be the scapegoat but the defense and rebounding will be way more pathetic without him.

    This team needs a new culture and system. It starts with coaching and reigning Harden in.
     
  19. Caesar

    Caesar Member

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    So OP, you'res saying we need a point forward? T-MAC been working out.
     
  20. Cstyle42

    Cstyle42 Member

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    Howard has no offensive post game skills. The real contenders don't allow Josh smith to throw alleys to Howard all night get real.
     

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