boy is right. The Arabs were promised the land in 1918 I believe, for siding with the allies in the 1st world war, then the British turned around and totally screwed them out of their land.
Boy is right about this point Haven. You have a bad habit of questioning the source of information ignoring the substance. This argument is SO irrelevant to the realities of the current situation. Israel will never be given to Palestinians, and Israel will never leave themselves open to another invasion.
You are confused because I worded my sentence poorly. I was referring to the argument's of the other posters.
LOL, first I am a Nazi, and now I am a bigot. Do you deny that the Palestinian authority is lying to the children about Israel? You have already lied and said that the Israelis were raping and killing Palestinian women and children. The Palestinians are <b>brainwashing</b> their young people and making peace impossible. I am not being a bigot, I am being a realist.
tpl: I almost always agree with you... but come on. How is being screwed in 1918 a justification for anything now? What even gave the British the right to make that decision? I believe that we should make the best of the situation that we find now. Incidentally, do you believe that we should revalidated all of those old commitments to the Native Americans? We screwed them horribly... but would it be a better idea to focus on improving education and job-training for Native Americans, or giving them back Oklahoma? boy: It is part of the Muslim religious texts that if you die in a Holy War (which many people believe is the case over there) then you automatically go to heaven. Realistically, that is part of the problem. When the reward for being a suicide bomber is a free ticket to paradise, you have problems. It was equally wrong when Christians taught the mantra of "killing Muslims for Jesus" during the Crusades. Part of the complications with the land deal is that Palestinian hardliners believe explicitly their holy text when it states that: 1. it is a sin to surrender Holy Land and that 2. any land upon which Muslims reside his Holy Land. How do you get past that if taken literally? Clearly, religion is a major part of the problem and you can't just say "it's all fine and valid." Some of it has to go to arrive at a viable solution. I disagree with Rodney McCray on the majority of political decisions... but I don't think he was being a bigot, there.
The IPI report records 102 incidents. "There were two deaths, 43 journalists were shot and 42 were harassed and physically assaulted in other ways. "Eighty-seven per cent of all violations were perpetrated by Israelis... The overwhelming majority of victimised journalists are of Palestinian origin [mainly working for foreign media outlets]." The report is not "positive" from the perspective of Israel The report added that "52 Palestinian media workers have been attacked, 17 beaten, 29 shot and eight shot at." In the most recent incident, two Palestinian journalists were killed in an Israeli helicopter attack on a Hamas office in the West Bank on 31 July. http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/monitoring/media_reports/newsid_1487000/1487347.stm BBC ain't it?
Let's go back to 1947. Britain had made two sets of territorial promises during WW I. One promise to the Jews; a second to the Moslems. The British sought to keep their promise to the Moslems while repeatedly violating the ones made to the Jews. It was clear to everyone the Arabs were being favored as nearly twenty new Arab states were carved out of the former Turkish Empire while at the same time the land mass promised to the Jews was being reduced dramatically. Of the land originally promised to be returned to Israel, only one-fifth was actually given while the other 78% was given to what is now Jordan. Yet, in spite of this obvious retraction of both Britain's promise and that of the League of Nations, the Israeli's accepted this. Yet, in spite of Israel's willingness to accept this small portion peace did not come and the Moslems attacked. However, the question begs to be asked, "Why did the British renege on their promise?" The answer is as follows. During the 1930's, as Adolf Hitler was coming into power in Germany, nearly 100,000 German Jews fled to what was then Palestine. The Moslem population did not like this large influx of Jews and began murderous anti-Jewish campaigns lasting some three years. The British, anxious to gain the support of the Moslem population against the Nazi's, stopped the Jewish immigration. Europe was killing them, America would take in a limited number, and now Palestine was closed to them as well. The Jewish leadership clamored for an end to this blockade into Palestine. Due to the fact over six million Jews were slaughtered by the Nazi's (a historical truth denied by the Moslems), the Jewish leaders demanded the end of the British Mandate and their own state. The Moslems likewise wanted the British out but instead demanded the entire area of Palestine to be one nation with an Arab majority. This matter was hotly debated in the newly formed United Nations and the vote was in favor of a Jewish state. However, there were numerous problems with the proposed territory since it comprised only 22% of the originally promised land. In addition it was then partitioned into two states, one Jewish and one Arab. The area to be Jewish was made up of three disconnected regions largely desert with over 600 miles of indefensible frontier. Biblical Judea, Samaria, Gaza and much of the Galilee were taken away. The Old City of Jerusalem itself was to become an international city within the Palestinian state. As heartbreaking as this was to the Jewish people the leadership accepted this UN plan and on May 14, 1948, David Ben Gurion read the Declaration of Independence of the new State of Israel. This compromise, this incredible concession still did not bring the desired peace. The Arabs rejected the Partition Plan demanding all the land. Therefore, on May 15 the armies of Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, Egypt and Iraq, along with contingents of several other Moslem countries, attacked the one-day-old state. The mufti of Jerusalem, Yasser Arafat's uncle, was quoted as announcing, "I declare a Jihad (holy war), my Moslem brothers! Murder the Jews! Murder them all!"
Who are the "Nazis" here?- <i> Israel blasts Palestinian TV "Holocaust denial'' 01:23 p.m Aug 27, 1997 Eastern JERUSALEM, Aug 27 (Reuter) - Israel on Wednesday lashed out at the Palestinian Authority over remarks aired on its official television station that questioned the number of Jews killed by Nazi Germany and called the Holocaust a Jewish "investment.'' "It is regrettable that an official outlet of the Palestinian Authority has stooped to Holocaust denial coupled with an allusion to Jewish venality and greed,'' Israeli leader Benjamin Netanyahu's aide David Bar-Illan said in a statement. "Palestinian propaganda is no longer limited to anti-Israel incitement, but has crossed the line to undisguised anti-Semitism,'' Bar-Illan said.</i> and <i>Palestinian Child Sacrifice Prof. Gerald M. Steinberg: Monday, October 23, 2000 According to the Palestinians, over 40 children have been killed in the waves of violence and confrontations that began at the end of September. They have been killed in the front lines, providing cover for the armed Palestinian militias with machine guns and other weapons seeking to overwhelm isolated Israeli guard posts. The outnumbered Israeli soldiers, defending the civilians behind these outposts, cannot see the children through the small slits and openings (as was clearly the case at the Netzarim crossing in Gaza). The tragic images of these young victims provide first-rate propaganda to use against Israel. Interviewed by journalists after these tragedies, some parents of these young victims refer to their children as "shaheeds" (martyrs), whose lives were given willingly and proudly to the Palestinian cause in fighting the hated Zionist enemy. In a scene that was unbelievably shocking, one mother boasted that she bore her son precisely for this purpose, and the father proudly claimed credit for providing the training. (The parents will also receive a sizeable financial "reward" from the Palestinian Authority.)</i>
Haven, I just feel that the Palestinians have a real grievance, but I wasn't trying to justify what's currently going on over there with that information. Agreed about making the best of the situation as it is now. I totally agree with you about Britain and there influence in creating Israel. I just don't understand why A. a european power made the decision B. about a non-European country, and C. with complete disregard to the presence and the wishes of the majority of the native people.
" The extended kingdoms of David and Solomon, on which the Zionists base their territorial demands, endured for only about 73 years… Then it fell apart…[Even] if we allow independence to the entire life of the ancient Jewish kingdoms, from David’s conquest of Canaan in 100 BC to the wiping out of Juda in 586 BC, we arrive at [only] a 414-year Jewish rule." You do realize that the ancient Jewish rule was only one of many periods in this land.
from David’s conquest of Canaan in 100 BC to the wiping out of Juda in 586 BC, Also, not to get picky, but your timeline is backwards.
AsherOcketIsBack: I hope that I have written this in a way that doesn't belittle what is going on over there, or the peoples involved. I can not fathom how you and the people in your region of the world continue to do routine daily activities (walking your dog) knowing that at any moment something like this can happen. I guess that you, or those that have not known any other type of lifestyle consider that a normal way of life. While I do not begin to say that I understand why this continues, I hold a heavy place in my heart that someday, somehow, that region, and all of it's peoples will know what peace is, and only fear isolated crime such in the USA. Duck and cover, and by all means....keep posting.
I can not fathom how you and the people in your region of the world continue to do routine daily activities (walking your dog) knowing that at any moment something like this can happen. I guess that you, or those that have not known any other type of lifestyle consider that a normal way of life. While I do not begin to say that I understand why this continues, I hold a heavy place in my heart that someday, somehow, that region, and all of it's peoples will know what peace is, and only fear isolated crime such in the USA. Fathom this- the murder rate in the U.S. is <b>twice</b> that of Israel. Why? Everybody is armed! Terrorists and criminals know that if they are going to pull a gun, they will be shot. Maybe there is a lesson to be learned from this. Has gun control ever been debated in this forum? OK Haven, you go first.
Not that I want to jump into this argument, but it really annoys me when people who clearly know nothing about Islam start making generalizations about it based on the acts of a few. Yes there are Muslims who believe they will be rewarded with eternal life for killing non-Muslims, but they are no more representative of Islam than are the abortion clinic bombers representative of Christianity. Furthermore, the Bible suggests all sorts of punishments for a wide variety of crimes, but you don't see all Christians looking to stone the first adulterer they come across. They same goes for Islam. It would be nice if people could back up their arguments without talking out of their anuses.
Israel doesn't look so innocent when you get past the obvious bias that exists in the American press. Human rights groups condemn Israel for assassinations and indiscriminate killing Human rights groups condemn Israel for assassinations and indiscriminate killing By Chris Marsden 23 February 2001 Human rights organisation Amnesty International (AI) has condemned Israel for operating a deliberate policy of assassinating leading figures in the Palestinian intifada. Describing this as a "policy of state assassinations," AI demanded an end to the practice by the Israeli government and its armed forces and for the US to review its weapons' sales to Israel. Curt Goering, Deputy Executive Director of Amnesty International USA, said, "There is clear cause for concern that US-made weapons are being used in attacks on Palestinians, since the US is the major supplier of arms to Israel." Amnesty field workers investigated a number of cases in which the Israeli Defence Force (IDF) targeted Palestinian leaders for assassination. The most high profile murder took placed on February 13, when an Israeli helicopter gunship fired missiles at a car in the Gaza Strip, killing Massoud Ayyad, a member of Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat's elite Force 17 bodyguard unit. Israel's outgoing Prime Minister Ehud Barak said of the killing, "Anyone who intends to harm Israelis will not escape and the long arm of the Israel Defence Forces will know how to locate and even the score with them." The most recent targeted killing took place on February 19, when Israeli Special Forces gunned down a leader of Hamas in a refugee camp near Nablus. Goering said of the investigations, "Our researchers determined that some of those killed could and should have been arrested instead. "Furthermore, they found that Israeli forces killed six Palestinian bystanders in a reckless and disproportionate use of force." Taxi driver and alleged Hamas activist Hani Abu Bakra was gunned down on a road in the Gaza Strip in December 2000 by five soldiers standing only two metres away. He could easily have been arrested, but instead the soldiers opened fire on a minibus full of people. Abu Bakra was killed, another Palestinian was fatally wounded and a third was disabled. The Palestinians have accused Israel of targeting around 20 local Palestinian leaders for assassination, since the current intifada began last September. AI investigated other killings by the IDF that were the result of excessive, random or negligent use of force by Israeli security forces, especially at checkpoints or during shooting at residential areas. One such case involved a woman shot in a car passing a checkpoint, and another was the killing of a child harvesting vegetables, shot from about 800 metres away. AI also found evidence that Israeli forces had used high explosive air burst weapons on several occasions. One of these, the M203 grenade launcher, fires projectiles designed to explode 15 metres or less above the ground, causing injury or death to anyone in the area. In one incident described by Amnesty, five youths were wounded and one, Hani al-Sufi, 15, was killed when shrapnel in a narrow alleyway hit them. An examination of shrapnel collected at the incident suggested that an M203 grenade launcher had been used. Another report by the US-based Human Rights Watch (HRW) issued Wednesday accused the Israeli military of using indiscriminate force in response to Palestinian gunfire, causing excessive civilian casualties. HRW documented nine civilian deaths and many serious injuries caused by Israeli fire in the West Bank city of Hebron. Washington Director of the Middle East and North Africa Division of HRW, Joe Stork, said, "Israeli forces are causing civilian deaths by firing indiscriminately into Hebron's Palestinian neighbourhoods. The Israeli military is obligated to protect Palestinian civilians from heavy fire, and should take the necessary steps to halt this pattern of indiscriminate and excessive fire." In one incident highlighted by HRW, on the night of February 17, the IDF responded to Palestinian gunfire by targeting the Abu Snainah neighbourhood of Hebron and a Palestinian collective farm located on the outskirts of Hebron. Three Palestinian civilians were killed and at least five wounded. The IDF killed 29-year-old Issam al-Tawil as he was driving home with his parents, his brother and his sister-in-law. Three of the four workers present at the al-Rayyan collective farm were hit by the IDF, killing Shaker al-Manasra and seriously injuring Yusuf al-Manasra and Ahmad Farajullah, who later died of his wounds. The surviving workers and the manager of the collective denied that there had been any gunfire from the farm. The IDF also fired on the al-Mezan hotel, which was hosting two wedding parties with more than a thousand guests. HRW provides a partial list of incidents in Hebron in which Palestinian civilians were killed or severely injured by the "persistent indiscriminate use of deadly force by the IDF." The incidents documented include: * On October 13, 2000, IDF soldiers shot 22-year-old student Shadi al-Wawi, as he was sitting on the roof of his relative's home in the al-Fawar refugee camp. Soldiers fired several shots at the family as they tried to rescue al-Wawi, and threatened a medical team that tried to reach him. Al-Fawar died on the way to hospital. * On October 18, IDF soldiers shot 38-year-old Ibrahim Abu Turki as he rode his donkey from his home village of Kilkas, leaving him paralysed. * On October 23, the IDF shot dead 57-year-old Abdul Aziz Abu Snainah as he went to his front room to answer a phone call. The IDF shot at Abu Snainah's brother in the street as he tried to come to his assistance. HRW researchers counted more than 60 medium calibre bullet scars on the home. * On November 11, the IDF killed Munib Abu Munshar as he was unloading his truck. There were no clashes taking place at the time. * On November 16, IDF soldiers fatally shot 31-year-old Yusuf Abu Awad near a checkpoint in Beit Umar. Soldiers had asked Abu Awad to stop at the checkpoint, and then began throwing stones at his car. When Abu Awad protested a soldier shot him in the face. * On December 31, IDF fire in the Haret al-Sheikh neighbourhood of Hebron injured 18-year-old Arit al-Qawasma in the right shoulder and face while she was in her bedroom. As she was being evacuated from the house, IDF fire killed 11-year-old Muath Abu Hadwan and wounded another boy. The IDF also shot 13-year-old Abir Salameh in the stomach as she went to feed her chickens. * On January 5, IDF fire hit 18-year-old Ahlam al-Jabali and her 18-year-old sister-in-law, Arij al-Jabali, as the two were seeking shelter in the stairwell of their home. Arij was killed in the incident, and the same bullet injured her sister-in-law.
