What will happen to the now $15-25 jobs if the min wage becomes $15?

I suggest that you read my post again. I also suggest that you look up the ratio of executive salaries to the salaries of their employees during the 1950's, the 1960's, the 1970's. the 1980's , the 1990's, on into the present day. The change is staggering. As I said, the executives are no longer in touch with their employees, with a few exceptions here and there. Look up the ratios via google. It is all there in black and white. They live in gated communities with their lawns and gardens taken care of quite often by the immigrants you are so eager to blame.

Consider again my point that this idea you have that illegal immigrants are to blame for the woes in the various industries you say have been impacted is misguided. The businesses that hire them don't care that by doing so, they are undermining the standard of living of their employees, those that remain, or former employees. They only care about their quarterly results, the stock price of their companies, their own extremely high salaries.

This happened over decades, and the result has been the undermining not only of the standard of living of their own employees, but those of the companies that compete with them, that feel compelled to imitate the same corrosive business practices you blame on illegal immigrants.

The American elite who spend so much money electing politicians like trump, who pour yet more money into their pockets with these gigantic tax cuts, want you to blame immigrants. They want to blame "entitlements." Think about that word, entitlements. Interesting word choice for describing the mediocre system we have to insure that the nation's elderly can live with a standard of living at least above that of the bottom of our society. They want you to blame anything but themselves, and clearly they have been very successful in doing so.

I have another suggestion. Look at the German economy, their system of education. They have imported relatively cheap labor to do the jobs their own educated population, who have been educated either in universities or in what are essentially trade schools, have no interest in doing, to such an extent that they have begun to regret it being so eager to do so. Look at the German standard of living. Look at the salaries of their employees compared to the salaries of their typical executives. It makes for interesting reading.

Just some suggestions.

 

Yep. As long as the lower middle class blames the lower classes for the problems and lack of wages instead of those at the top that are raking it in more than ever and paying out less of a rate than the middle classes we won't solve the problem.

Folks should look up for the heart of the issue and where the problems are instead of striking down at those who are also trying to rise.

The best way to climb a ladder to reach a higher rung is to reach upwards and pull. Don't worry about the rungs below you. The folks on those rungs want the same things you want and can help support your climb.

It is not wrong for the union workers, working classes and minimum wage earners to look after their interests. The top earners are doing everything they can to look after their particular interests and they have much more access to help in looking after them.

 

If you read my post he responded to (and obviously only read half of) you would have seen that I did criticize those at the top raking it in on the backs of everyone else - illegals included.

But if you guys believe that 11-15m people , all largely uneducated come with no consequences .... you are mistaken.

I felt those effects first hand as a business owner and watched dozens of others go out of business not able to compete.

They are part of the problem , not the problem as I explained above.

 

The first problem with this thread is the stupid arrogance of construction jobs dont take skill. How many of you can drywall, or lay carpet. How many of you can pipe a house. How many of you are carpenters.

Hispanics come with skills Americans no longer have. The first and second generation Hispanics don't have our wage demands partly because they appreciate the lifestyle they are living more. Regardless they are in demand because of skill

I see one company in Houston consistently putting up the frames on large buildings to skyscrapers. Its called Steel Masters. I see nothing but non English speaking Hispanics dangling off scaffolds thirty stories up welding those frames

 

My point is that if there is a reduction of the huge profit margin for those at the very top workers will be paid more, they pour that money back into the economy and the very ones that you say have hurt the business will be supporting the small business owners.

The top earners save more of their money whereas those at the bottom put it back into the economy. Numerous studies have shown this.

 

We definitely agree there - the working poor spend most of their income , the wealthy save and accumulate beyond a certain point.

My point on immigration is a simple one: You simply can't add 11-15m largely uneducated people to the economy without consequences and those consequences have the greatest impact on those in the same socioeconomic group / education level.
These people are competing with them for jobs , housing and other resources

Its just another example of the rich getting richer while the low / middle income people get the shaft - both citizens and illegals.

 

The one thing I would add is that they are already in the economy. Also with employment numbers being what they are we could handle adding more workers.

 

This 11-15MM number is way overstated. Many of them are children or non-working spouses that aren't part of the workforce. The US population since 1980 has also increased by over 100MM in total, and previously non-working women entered the workforce in larger numbers too. Overall, the impact of illegal immigrants on the workforce is not that high. Certainly it is in specific industries, but the job/wage trends we've seen cross all industries.

Beyond that, the # of illegal immigrants in the US has been on a steady decline since 2006, and none of those trends have reversed themselves, so it's hard to attribute much of it to that. There are plenty of other causes for this stuff - globalization, automation, taxing capital at lower rates, etc. Using immigrants as a scapegoat and a cause for job/wage issues is primarily just a way to pit poor Americans against poor immigrants.

 

I don't disagree with this and would find it difficult to remove them now and many of them have kids that are citizens - I believe another round of amnesty is an inevitability.

Remember the sub prime crisis - If you removed 11-15m people and their families , you'd have an instant surplus of housing and prices would fall like a rock.

You'd also have a labor shortage .... labor prices would likely rise significantly (that's not necessarily a bad thing).

So no , I'm not in favor of deporting them .... but damnit , I am in favor of any new one's going thru the proper channels and being vetted , not just taking it upon themselves but leaving it to us to decide how many and if those individuals deserve to be part of our society or not.

 

Has there been some unedited manuscript of Hitchhiker's Guide floating around that claimed 15 was a magic number too? Nominal wages will go up, as they always have.