These are the types of responses I was hoping to avoid. Analogies are cool to take a position, but they actually don't say much at all. In this case, that doesn't mean anything within the context of this discussion in regards to any of the criteria of "what makes a good NBA GM."
My beef about the MOFs is that they always find some excuses or reasons to explain away Morey's mistakes. And when they run out of excuses, they just say, "Morey is smarter than you. What do you know behind the scene?" That is clearly LOF-like behavior. Intellectually, they might admit that Morey is human. But in reality, they never allow any genuine mistake or weakness attributed to Morey.
For me a good NBA GM is someone who puts together a competitive team in the shortest amount of time possible while making as few mistakes as he can. Overall given the hand he was dealt with the Yao and T-Mac injuries and Les Alexander's "no tank" policy, he's done a pretty good job. Landing Harden and Howard in consecutive offseasons is a remarkable achievement. That being said, let's not forget that before the Harden deal, this franchise nearly got saddled with Nene and Pau before David Stern stepped in and nixed the trade. At the time we all hated Stern for meddling, but truth be told, he saved this organization from years of mediocrity. So you want an example of luck, there's the biggest one in Morey's tenure. Also, he's made some horrible draft choices which offset the handful of good ones. And one of those rare good ones, Parsons, just walked for nothing. Speaking of which, then there's this offseason. This is one summer that could go down in infamy for Rockets fans. It's not just the prospect of losing Lin, Asik, and Parsons and replacing them with Ariza and Joey Dorsey(at least thus far). It's that we've basically written off next season(at least with regard to challenging in the West) to maintain "flexibility" for the summer of 2015 and possibly 2016. That's not likely to sit well with Dwight who can opt out and leave in 2 years. Missing out on Bosh and letting Parsons walk could continue to haunt this organization for a very long time. And to add insult to injury, McHale is still our coach. In the end, I'd give Morey an overall good grade, but the clock is ticking on the guy. If the team regresses this upcoming season, some major change may be in order before 2016 rolls around. Standing pat next summer will be unacceptable if the Rockets are looking to convince Dwight to stick around. That could mean Morey being shown the door. I don't expect the pursuit of superstar players to ever end though until the day Les sells the team or keels over.
Do you really believe Morey has had only a handful of good draft choices? Could you list what his good draft choices have been and what his poor draft choices have been so that we can put them into some context.
I think there are two ways to look at how good a GM really is, 1. Team performance. NBA is a result-oriented business, there are different ways to build a team, but ultimately, it comes down to the result of the team's performance. Of course there are lucks, unforeseeable injuries, that happens to almost every team, that's why it makes more sense to step back, look at the result over time, not focus on individual moves, or a single year performance. Morey has been here since 2008(?), the team has been staying competitive over his tenure, but you can also say the team has been just "average", since they haven't done anything in the playoff. GM picks right coach & assembles the right team, or pick the right coach for his team. I think most people here would agree that Morey has failed in picking the right coach. Now he has a couple more years to prove that he has assembled the right team. 2. Peer comparison. You cannot rate a GM in a vacuum, he needs to be put side to side with other GMs in the league, see how he measure up/down. From this angle, I'd rate him in top 10, that's better than 2/3 of the GMs in the league. You can say that he is really good since he is better than 2/3 of the GMs, or you can say most NBA GMs are just dumb, as many here have declared
Watch Morey in the press interview introducing Dorsey and Dante Greene (right?), Morey calls them "Assets for future trades." I think that was before we all started noticing him saying that. There really is no excuse for describing them that way, so openly in their introduction. And Greene got traded before the season...lols props to shastarocket for posting this video Clutch made.
His good picks are Brooks, Landry, Parsons, Patterson, Budinger, and T-Jones. The problem is that after letting Parsons walk, we only have T-Jones left from that group. The jury's still out on Canaan and this year's picks. The rest are forgettable or downright awful(especially Morris, White, and trading Batum).
I am one of those who look at all things related to basketball as "simple" in that I find this as entertainment and nothing more. I think we should be respectful of how others view basketball. Many, as shown here in CF enjoy the statistical side of basketball which encompasses salaries, PER, TS, etc. and that is fine. That is how they want to enjoy basketball so we have to respect that. It doesn't mean though that just because they want to look at basketball from that prism that is the be all and end all of the NBA and all other kind of approaches or views of the game is "simplistic". One of the things that I used to enjoy here at CF was the exchange of ideas from many angles and that people used to be respected if they did not sing Kumbaya to a certain mode of thinking. It has turned into a Kumbaya for Morey the god of statistics and that any opinions that do not conform to such mantra is "simplistic" and the posters with critical ideas about Morey are called all sorts of names as if all things Morey have lifted the Rockets to great successes more than trips to the first round. For me, basketball is fun, it is a big entertainment business which caters to the competitive appetite of fans, and nothing more. I enjoy reading a lot of the posters who cite statistics some of which are informative and some of which are just that, statistics. That is how they want to enjoy basketball and being part of CF so that's cool, we should respect that. Others, like CH for example, are posting to stir some emotions although they have proven to generally be very astute basketball observers. I believe their intentions are to have fun and toying with some fans' emotions are part of their own enjoyment. So, my whole point is that the beauty of CF which I previously appreciated very much then, I thought, was that it was a forum to express opinions, exchange ideas no matter how great or silly, express elation or frustration, and to post different views and opinions on basketball and everything else related to that entertaining sport. Calling people "simplistic", etc., just because they do not present similar views or have the view that basketball is simply there to enjoy or to be frustrated about is, in my view, very simplistic in itself. True, there are many aspects to the sport but one cannot cover all of that by posting in CF or even writing books or research papers on the subject matter. Basketball can be complex or simple depending on how one would like to view it, and I believe we should respect each other's choice of how to enjoy the sport. It is not real life.
Morey's good and bad goes like what? Good : Turned Yao and Tracy injuries around into Harden and Howard in 4 years without tanking Solid although unspectacular drafting Good contracts Great salary cap manipulation (ie Asik) Strategy not liked by DaDakota Bad : Lost Chandler for nothing Jeremy Lin retained Milk Hair Royce White Is kind of a douche?
Jury is still out on Motiejunas as well. In addition he's gotten "rookie" players in Beverley and Troy Daniels. so we'll add those to the list. That would mean in 7 years he has produced 6 good draft picks by your measure. Possibly 8 if D-Mo and Canaan pan out. And realistically about 10 if you count the "rookies" he has picked up in Beverley and Daniels. How would you rate that compared to his peers? Is it just average? I think that's top tier given the fact that we've only had late lotto picks/late first round picks/second round picks. By the way, that Batum bit is ridiculous. We never picked him. The Blazers did because that trade was already lined up. That's like those people who used to say we traded Gay for Battier. We never even picked Gay, the Grizzlies did. This is a common practice in the NBA. It's doubly ridiculous when you factor in that Donte Greene (who we actually had picked all along) got us Ron Artest.
I think that's a fair criticism. It was Morey's pick. If you say Royce wasn't his fault then on the flip side you can't say Brooks was a good pick by him since that was Adelman's choice. Ultimately the GM has final say on these things so they get both the credit and the blame.
Morey has done a good job getting unknowns like Bev and Daniels and turning them into rotation players. I'll give him props for that. This is why I get even more p-ssed off about all the unnecessary gambling like the moves he made this offseason. No, you won't always find a Parsons in the 2nd round or pick up a Bev who was playing in the Ukraine. But when those kinds of moves don't pan out, they don't set your franchise back potentially for years. You just cut those players or trade them and move on. And when they do pan out, you either have starters in Bev and Parsons, assets that can be used to acquire players who are better fits for your team, or guys who come out of nowhere and hit a game-winning three for you in the playoffs like Daniels did.
Instead of typing up a long essay, I'll emphasize what I consider to be the most important (since its kind of an umbrella for a lot of the other things..) : a vision In the broader sense, people view this as an identity (ex: defensive/ offensively orientated), but if you take it to a more specific level it comes down to the mold of players at their respective position you think would give your team the best chance to win a title. This is also where I find Morey most at fault-- don't get me wrong, he's still better than half the GMs in the league, but the all too popular "3 stars" isn't really a vision. Especially when just about any star in FA is a target we throw all our chips at. Its pretty much common sense that the players have to be complementary--not everyone will fit your championship layout. By chasing every big name and placing little emphasis in developing our own shows that he isn't too clear about what he himself thinks is a contender. You will see the top teams making carefully crafted moves that are consistent with their previous steps. Its not easy, but being the best isn't supposed to be.
Aaron Brooks was Adelman's pick, Landry & Scola were basically CD's...so you can have it that way but you just have to be consistent in doing so.
Another thing, Royce was worth the gamble. He had probs yes, but he was really good. I have no clue if morey was begged my mchale to get white, or how it happened. Mchale chose white- thats on him Morey who ever he chooses is on him if they fail is on them, if they succeed its on them too. And another thing, we have no clue, morey may have kept parsons, but Les ultimatly said No that he didnt want to pay. BUT we will never know what happened. Getting to my point, Morey will be the scapegoat always. Be compassionate though too because he has a boss who pulls the strings in the end. BUT hey maybe Les doesnt, maybe its all on Morey, and we shouldnt be upset with Les for not spending. Who really knows.
A lot of misinformation here. CD retired prior to the 2007 draft, so all those picks were Morey. Plus the Scola trade. Am I missing something. Morey was CD's asst for a year. Prior to the Brooks, Landry and Scola draft, CD officially stepped down and Morey became GM. Are you saying CD still pulled the Scola trade and Brooks/Landry picks? I thought the argument was who was responsible for Rudy Gay vs Battier trade. JVG, CD or Daryl. And don't recall any dispute that CD retained power after he officially retired prior to the 2007 draft.
That's just a strawman trolls and the ignorant use. Morey isn't perfect. He was given the mandate to compete by the owner and has competed every year,
No, the argument presented in the posts before you was saying that Royce wasn't "really" Morey's pick. You can use that line of logic, or you can go by the fact that any player the GM selects is "his" because he has the final say--As DudeWah pointed out. By the time the Scola/Brooks/Landry draft rolled around, CD was no longer the GM, but since it was Morey's first draft, he relied heavily on CD's advice. I remember Daryl specifically stating this for Landry, and I'm pretty sure he said this of Scola too who had been on CD's map for a while since he was drafted by the spurs. My line of thinking? Daryl should get credit for Brooks/Scola/Landry just as he should get some blame for Royce White. Hope that clarifies things.
