I don't have much sympathy for the militia guys but I would like to hear what exactly happened. Not surprising supporters of the occupiers are already calling Finicum a martyr and claiming that FBI shot him while he was surrendering, ("Hands up, Don't Shoot!" sound familiar?) but there is little hard evidence either way. Finicum's own comments that he would rather die than live in a cage make it questionable if he would surrender. If we take him at his word most likely he did something like drawing his weapon against the FBI, charging them or something else aggressive. My own feeling though is that this is going to end soon with the remaining occupiers voluntarily leaving. Given that Ammon Bundy has already issued a statement for them to withdraw. Like I said I didn't think these guys were really prepared for a siege.
So it sounds like it was almost exactly like the original "hands up, don't shoot", the difference being that we haven't heard that he actually attacked someone first. Once that information comes out, and we find out that not only was he not surrendering but he was attacking people, then we march in the streets and chant "hands up, don't shoot" and talk about police brutality and racism.
Witnesses are disputing the hands up scenario. My guess is the feds are holding back release of the dashcam video for the most propitious time, i.e. to disprove the false narrative of the extremists.
I'm sure Finicum and the rest of them would much prefer the narrative that he was shot while assaulting officers than one in which he was shot while on his knees. Obviously, if he was shot while on his knees and surrendering, than I'll join Bobby protesting police brutality. But, it seems very unlikely they'd murder him in cold blood in front of a half-dozen witnesses and then arrest everyone else in an orderly fashion. It makes a lot more sense that he was belligerent and got shot and everybody else complied with orders and allowed themselves to be arrested. It might still be excessive force though; hard to say.
LOL, c'mon, you know I don't really care and honestly think the idiot got what he had coming to him. I was just making a joke.
What's weird is that we haven't heard more about the Gilbert Flores shooting where there are 2 videos showing that he fully had his hands in the air when he was shot and killed by police.....and a grand jury decided not to indict the officers. No buildings were burned down, and there weren't riots in the streets. In fact, most people didn't even hear about it because the guy was Hispanic and was shot by Hispanic cops. It's weird how legitimate cases are ignored and BS cases always championed.
While I don't agree with Finicum and the other occupiers if there is solid evidence that he was shot while surrendering the FBI and other LE on the scene should be held accountable. At the moment there are two conflicting accounts about what happened and given the confusion of the situation it's possible that neither is the complete story. Just based on that Finicum said he would rather die than be captured that would lend credence to that he did violently resist being arrested but I don't think that is completely solid evidence.
If the shooting became a thing, that Finicum had earlier intimated he'd rather die than be in prison, that would speak to the state of mind of the officers that they had a credible belief that he posed a threat. Finicum would still have had to do something to trigger a reaction, of course, but I think it helps the police insulate themselves quite a bit.
True Finicum's own statements don't help his case and is why I lean more towards that he bears most of the responsibility. The more I think about it though I am troubled by the inconsistency with the testimony and the lack of any other solid evidence. A lot of people make tough statements when not actually facing a threat but don't follow through when actually faced with the situation. I know very little about Finicum so can't say for sure whether he was that type of guy but I think in general we need to be very careful about considering bravado as being actual indication of action. If so then the vast majority of YouTube commentators are going to be violent. What's giving me some pause now too is that something I've said regarding other cases. I don't believe that the mere act of resistance to LE the proper expectation is death. I don't think that should apply to a young black man or an old white man. In this case we knew that Finicum was armed so most likely any resistance was violent on his part but I would like to know more about what happened.
http://www.kgw.com/news/local/eastern-oregon/video-shows-the-death-of-lavoy-finicum/24426516 Action at 5:40
Well, to me it looks like he's reaching for his gun on two occasions. Looks like the idiot couldn't get it out of his holster. (my take: Walks out of the vehicle with hands apart like he's surrendering, but with intent to sucker punch the cops. Obviously, he's not complying to get down. and you ain't supposed to end a police chase by getting out of the car like that, until they tell you. But no, he doesn't "rush" them, as the other Y'allQaeada said.) Then they use passive weapons to subdue the others, which was likely their plan from the beginning.
It's sad that Finicum's 11 children will never see their father again, and all because of this idiotic cause. From the video, Finicum does look like he was reaching inside his jacket toward where a gun holster would be. The cops had good cause to suspect that he was reaching for a gun at the moment that they shot him.
