So you think the Morey wasn't trying to all-in to be when he offered Scola, Martin, Dragic, and NY's #1 pick for Pau Gasol? And that he made a mistake in not offering Patterson and Lowry in addition to the above?
I like how the highlights of your list are 3rd string PGs. Yes he's made a lot of mistakes with 3rd stringers.
his biggest mistake is that he let thibs go. his weakness is that he spent too much time and focus on finding a diamond from a pile of rocks.
I am afraid that I'm about to let the elephant into the room and it is probably time to don my flame r****dant suit, but here goes. First of all, forget all the little stuff, trades and drafts are always a mixed bag, win some and lose some. There will be plenty of missed shots, even an air ball or two, but if you shoot a high percentage, that is all anyone can ask. Second, why are we where we are today, with no stars, no attendance and not able to get on national tv? It is because we let our two huge assets just waste away with receiving little or nothing in return. We are getting a good lesson in just how difficult it is to bring in some star power with nothing in the same category to return. How many corn flakes do you want for that nice juicy steak? I am a Rockets fan. I was a Tracy McGray fan. I was a Yao fan. But I cannot be the only one who watched them lose game seven by 40 to a Dallas team that would loose in the next round. We brought in a better supporting cast and went nowhere. Blame it on injury or blame it on keeping injury prone players? It's not like Boston who have some declining players and are keeping them around to see if they can find a way to win it again, or at least make a good run. We never really had a serious run. Taking the Lakers to seven was fun, but when you have to talk about a loss as a high point something is amiss. Would I have been able to do better than Morey? Nope. Would it have taken some big ones to trade the big two? Absolutely. And like analyzing all mistakes, it is with the aid of hindsight. But think of the trade value these "assets" had and what could have been had in return. Even a couple lesser stars that could remain on the court to play or be traded themselves instead of just wasting away. I enjoyed watching these two guys play immensely, cheered them on, and felt for them when they were injured, but I never thought either were the type of player to carry us to a championship. Tracy was super talented not unlike Iverson. Yao was ten feet tall and could shoot. Neither was a fighter and both were fragile and were orders of magnitude better ballplayers than I would ever hope to have been. I know there is the whole Les needing the Chinese money thing, but is he paying that back now with a team that has received nothing in return? It really is a sad way to run a basketball team if that is the case at any rate. To end on a positive note, I think McHale and Morey are going to reshape this team into a team with some fight and will eventually do us proud.
not trading tmac for iverson, or billups and prince, or trading tmac for vc before he declared that surgery. Inevitably yao still would have went down but when you see players going down, you trade them while they can. We held on to pieces too long. Even brooks.
it was intended as a general statement regarding a homerun move. I still think the first offer would have been a good trade, the second one you suggested is too much for just Pau... now if we were talking about Dwight that's a different story
Curious how people put Ariza as a bad move. I hated the player but I am quite sure they signed him because they knew Toronto liked him and they wanted Bosh badly. He ultimately ended up being moved for Lee, so not sure why that is characterized as a bad move.
Trades and drafts, blah, blah, blah....but the real issue, the only issue is the BOTTOM LINE! Wins, losses, playoff appearances, and, sigh, championships. Conclusion, we are on the short end of that stick and, personally, I don't see the light at the end of the tunnel. How do we acquire stars when we have role players to trade? How do we draft potential stars when we are stuck in the middle of the pack? How do we get out of the hole? Not my problem. But the ones getting big bucks to right this ship including Morey better start figuring it out. So far, shuffling players like cards hasn't done much.
So in 2008, after we came off the 22-game winning streak and T-Mac putting up 27-8-7 in the playoffs, after Yao missed 27 games but put up 22-10-2, you felt the Rockets best move was to trade both players instead of trading for Ron Artest to contend? Were you advocating the Rockets rebuilt in the 2008 offseason? Because we literally had no assets after that season.
I probably enjoyed that winning streak as much as anyone, and it was a high spot in the Tracy / Yao era, but we finished 5th with a first round exit? As exciting as it was to get Artest, taking off the rose colored fan glasses (which I probably was wearing at the time) you need to finish 3rd and make it past the first round before talk of a championship run can be taken seriously. Honestly, I don't remember the asset situation at that particular time. (I guess you are talking contracts) I really don't know when the perfect time to pull the trigger would have been. One had to have some doubts after the 2005 playoffs. There were many years between that point in time and the departure of the big two. A long time to look at three things, results, injuries and the players themselves. (I was tempted to say, results, results, results). At any point in time were we honestly contending? Were we putting our stars on the floor or did we have them at the doc's or limiting their minutes? Did they show us that they had the fight to overcome adversity and pull out the W when we really needed it? Like I said, I was a fan of both, but if your goal was to win a championship, their trade value was greater than their potential to take us there.
The 2005 Playoffs was the first year of the Yao/Tracy era. That was literally the BEGINNING of their journey together, and you're saying that should have raised red flags? They were up 2-0 on the road against a pretty damn good Dallas team, and it took some epic refereeing failures for the Rockets to lose that series. The next year was a lost year with T-Mac's back, and Yao's leg issues. There was no way the team was giving up on them at that point, after only 2 years together. 2007 brought the team back to the playoffs, where it was PAINFULLY obvious JVG could not handle running an offense....even with two superstars on the team. Again, advocating trading one or both of the stars at that point would have been selling low, and would have unnecessarily rebooted the franchise. 2008 again brought injuries to Yao, but Rick Adelman looked like a promising head coach for this team as he was still able to lead them on a 22-game winning streak. It was clear that the formula for this team was acquiring a third star....not trading the 2 stars we already had. 2009 AGAIN had T-Mac being injured, but with Yao and Artest leading the way, they were able to overcome his injury, and rise to being one of the best teams in the West. Remember, they were one win away from being the #2 seed. If Yao doesn't go down with an injury in Game 3 of the Lakers series, I have a feeling we would be having a very different conversation right now. I think you're allowing your hindsight to dictate this discussion as opposed to reliving the facts as they were. Sure, knowing what we know NOW, should we have traded one or both of them? Absolutely. But, given the way circumstances played out, I simply don't think anybody could have made those moves at the time.
A great gm is somebody that other gms want as their gm. I don't think anybody pining over Morey like they would if Sam Presti was available. Look, he's not a terrible gm, but he's not anything special, either. Face the facts. Larry Bird, Presti, even Joe Dumars have more clout and better records; even the grizzlies gm Chris Wallace (especially with what he did to turn around the celtics and the grizzlies salary dump). the best thing you can say about Morey is that he fields a playoff team. Look also, the Rockets have had been fortunate to have had the #1 pick in the draft in key drafts (they have had stars congenial to force trades to their team [tmac and francis] with only 2 rings to show for it and none with Morey. the rockets for the most part have been a failed franchise under more and really Les Alexander walked into his championships which where Charlie Thomas's and Rudy T's and Hakeem's championships.
It seems like all you do on this board is troll against the Rockets (examples: your prior "Hakeem was an underachiever" posts or the current "the Rockets are a failed franchise") and pump up the Grizzlies. Why do you care about what Rockets fans think so much to where you'd spend your time here? I don't get it.
The fact is the rockets was not contender in the last 10 plus years, one visit to the second round playoff was not good enough be be considered as elite. So it would be good to make trades.
Joe Dumars, the guy who drafted Darko Milicic over Melo, Bosh, Wade? The guy who made probably the biggest blunder amongst any GM in arguably the deepest draft pools of all time?
I'm not a Morey apologist. I just want to mention, on the Lin thing, NO ONE foresaw what has happened with that kid. It ranks as a mistake, but it's not like drafting Dorsey, one of the most immature players I've seen, or passing on Kawhi Leonard.
the first round pick for twill HAS to be up there. but hey... we can all enjoy playing monday morning quarterback - im sure morey's had plenty of tough calls... like the moves he DIDNT make... (that none of us know about)
I said they were a failed franchise under Morey and this couldn't be any more true. With the type of talent that they have had; I don't see how anybody could think otherwise. Yao tmac francis ron artest battier The rockets had Ming & Franchise, then Ming & Tmac + battier + Artest and Scola and manged one 2nd round playoff appearance. The biggest problem with Morey is that he doesn't think he needs to rebuild the team which means unless you all win the lottery in inexplicable fashion (Yao Ming), your team is doomed with early exits. Anybody can see that from the outside looking in, you all are still under the notion that yall can reload. Reload with what? Scola, Parsons, Patterson Lowry and Dragic? If you had a Ming on the team i'd understand the strategy, but i assume that morey thinks he can moneyball his way to a championship. bwawawabwa
