I had a huge fight with my roommate about this last night. IMO, sweatshop labor is wrong morally, and it's even bad economically in the long term. Ethically, it's exploitative, and creates a perpetual cycle of poverty. you give people sustenance wages, but not enough to create wealth or materially improve their lives. It's awful. Sweatshops have horrible conditions: physical abuse, 18 hour days, sexual abuse, permanent physical damage from the work... all for just enough money to eat. Then they ship the product to industrialized nations, and make a fortune. But economically, it's a dead end road as well, for the US. You're shipping capital and industry overseas, and getting cheap product... but you're not creating enough wealth in the host country to buy your own product. In the end, there's a zero-sum loss for the company as well as the exploited population. Besides, such things create resentment, and the US won't retain it's position of hegemony forever. I don't want everyone to "gang up on us." My idea: I agree that it's not practical to pay people overseas US wages. That would discourage companies from EVER going overseas for production, which can be a good thing for those people, the American consumer, and the business. But they shoudl be paid a living wage that allows them to live reasonably in their own environment, and they should be given better working conditions, and freed from abuse. My roommate disagrees: he thinks that market dynamics should be left unchecked, adn that if it means his clothes are cheaper... hey, that's great. Grrrr... Thoughts? ------------------ I would believe only in a God who could dance. - Friedrich Nietzsche Boston College - NCAA Hockey National Champions 2001 [This message has been edited by haven (edited April 26, 2001).]
I'm for it... it teaches kids a trade and the entrepreneurial spirit. Besides, when they're cleaning out the gutter it's so cute when their eyes get big... lol, you just know they're going to fall off of the roof. ------------------ women love me, fish fear me.
Have any of you bought a Nike product? If so, quit complaining! ------------------ Im too drunk to walk ... Im driving home!
All you have to do is work in home sales at Dell Computer Corporation to know what a sweatshop is all about. ------------------ "...more and more of our imports are coming from overseas." George W. Bush -- On NPR's Morning Edition (9/26)
or on "THE LINE" at compaq 12 hours/ 2 twenty minute breaks and a 40 minute lunch Rocket River ------------------
Sweatshops are great for really fat people, we should open them up as day spas for the obese. You could get a trip to China or Mexico or Korea, work 2 weeks in a sweatshop and shed a few pounds. I may be on to something... DaDakota ------------------ If you like RTS games, check out this one. www.frontierwars.com coming soon to a PC near you.
Actually, a gander across UT will show that New Balance is holding their own. Nike can charge a premium, but does it have to ? Does NIke's shoes actually cost more to make then NB ? I'm not blaming Nike at all. It's a business, and in htis case, maybe there are o casualties. Those third world families are making more then they would normally make. Sometimes you swallow your pride and dignity to make a living. That's just the way it is...... ------------------ "norm, would you like to buy an indian scalp ? This deal isn't gonna make or break me Norm, so don't jerk me around." Harry Carey "Norm, if I had a mohawk scalp, I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you."
Many of the so called sweatshops actually pay more than the other jobs that people could get in those areas, that's why people choose to work there. Who cares if they don't make as much as an American laborer, one has nothing to do with the other. I don't complain the the government doesn't completely subsidize me like the people of Brunei, because I am not one of them. Every country is different, in terms of wages paid and cost of living. I could take the income from my internship and live high on the hog in many places around the world, but here in America I am just a poor college student. Before you start boycotting Nike, you might want to consider the poor Malaysian workers who will lose their job because of your indignation. ------------------ "Of course, thats just my opinion, I could be wrong" -- Dennis Miller
You can't pick out one company that sells a premium brand and use that to prove a hypothesis regarding the total basket of goods for sale in this country. There are exceptions to every rule. NIKE may well be an exception (I don't know enough about their finances to be able to judge), but when we speak overall and in general, using low-cost producers overseas brings down prices at home. So while you may not notice it when you pick out a single, premium brand company. Overall, you feel the effects. ------------------ Houston Sports Board Film Dallas.com [This message has been edited by mrpaige (edited April 26, 2001).]
I agree wholeheartedly. ------------------ "norm, would you like to buy an indian scalp ? This deal isn't gonna make or break me Norm, so don't jerk me around." Harry Carey "Norm, if I had a mohawk scalp, I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you."
Its exploitation, and stuff like that tends to come back around and bite you in the ass. ------------------ Founder and President of the Houston Homers Club(HHC) - Are you a homer? Join now! The Rockets will be NBA champions. Believe.
I know what you are saying, but don't other shoe companies do what NIke does ? It's part of the business. Puedfor may call it exploitation, but these people are making more then they would normally be making. I guess everyone's a winner, I don't know. ------------------ "norm, would you like to buy an indian scalp ? This deal isn't gonna make or break me Norm, so don't jerk me around." Harry Carey "Norm, if I had a mohawk scalp, I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you."
Nike's shoes are cheaper to manufacturer, but they still must charge a higher price for them for the same reason that Absolute and Jose Cuervo charge a premium for their products. It's because they spend all their money on advertsing. Anyway, I'm gonna go kick of my K-Swissees right now, and pour myself a shot of hornitos. ------------------ stop posting my damn signature
When you work 60 hrs a week, and can't afford your basic needs, you are being exploited. As for the "they earn more than they would otherwise", I sure thats exactly how the workers see it, "thank god the Yankees are here! They give us backbreaking labor for spare change, oh how can we repay them!?!" or maybe they see it as just another incident in a long and illustrious history of exploitation by Westerners. Which do you think is more likely? ------------------ Founder and President of the Houston Homers Club(HHC) - Are you a homer? Join now! The Rockets will be NBA champions. Believe.
I believe that Hydra hit it right on the head. What we in the US would consider below subsistence wages may be quite competitive and more than adequate in the country where a factory is located. What we in the US would consider unsatisfactory working conditions, in that country, may be considered luxurious. Additionally, I would say that one should be glad for a particular country when all of these factories open up there since it means that that country is on a path that many other countries took toward greater industry, prosperity and equality. The textile/fabric/clothing industry generally has been one of pioneering segments of oncoming industrialization that raises the living standards of all in a country. It was not too long ago that Nikes had tags that stated that it was made in Korea, or Taiwan. Now those countries are deeply involved in construction, high technology and other greater-paying fields with living conditions that are near first world status. I would not be surprised that in another decade (unless something drastic and tragic occurs), countries such as Malaysia, Thailand, China (at least the major coastal cities) and Indonesia – where a lot of these factories are located - be at the status of where Taiwan and Korea is now. Oh, for your information, Nike does not own most (if any) of the factories it does business with – I would bet that most of the factories are not even owned by any American/German/French company but by an Asian company. In fact, I believe none of the major shoe and apparel companies own the factories. They are independent. So, the same factory that may be producing Nikes this month may be producing New Balances next month and Adidas after that. ------------------
New Balance does own some of their own factories, though those are in the United States. Not all of their shoes are manufactured in these company-owned facilities, though. ------------------ Houston Sports Board Film Dallas.com
I adressed my feelings on sweatshop labour a while ago in some anti Nike thread. Alot of other people did as well. someone should bring that one back from the dead. I recall actually being readable in that thread. I might have even used punctuation. in a nutshell, OH **** IM IN A NUTSHELL!! it is most important to know what is being disgussed, poor factory conditions in america and abroad that are unsafe, overwork their employees, and hires children. OR illegal sweatshops in upstairs of warehouses in NYC, or in any metro place. staffed with illegal aliens and their children. these are also dangerous ------------------ Hanta-Force Paintball www.hanta-force.com
I agree with you on the moral side of it. However, in terms of the economics, I disagree. I think it's a very viable method of cutting costs. Ultimately, this makes products here cheaper and cuts inflation. It also reduces the average cost of living. I think the concept here is the same as free trade. Countries "specialize" in what they can do most effectively and most cheaply and then trade with others. Third world countries are excellent for low-skill labor products which are traded to the US. In return, US companies pour money into the 3rd world countries which theoretically brings their standards of living up (as opposed to having all those people unemployed). Over time, the standard of living would rise along with wages. That's the theory, anyway. Now, the moral issue is entirely different. That's something that each person has to decide... Unfortunately, companies often are generally on the bottom-line as opposed to moral and ethical issues. If it's legal, they'll probably take advantage of it. If they didn't, they'd be doing a disservice to their stockholders (the owners of the company), so the companies are in a bit of a bind there. ------------------ http://www.swirve.com ... more fun than a barrel full of monkeys and midgets.
It is a travesty which should be outlawed under penalty of death. ------------------ My dream job is to be a Houston Rockets towel boy.
