True, but they would have a lot less ability to do what they do (both to Gazans and to Israelis) if they were no longer in charge, and that's something that's tied to Israel's interests in preserving the status quo and the Occupation. Hamas serves a useful purpose.
That's kind of missing some important distinctions. 1. Hamas has been policing the nutballs who instigate these attacks to Israeli satisfaction since the last war. 2. Hamas agreed a few weeks ago (and for once) to being the junior partner in a unified Palestinian government with the PA in order to negotiate relations with Israel (and the UN). 3. That's what got Bibi hot under the collar, and the rhetoric bombs began...about not negotiating with terrorists...which is a bit circular since the very nature of the fear was the terrorists willingness to possibly negotiate. 4. Just shortly before those 3 kids were kidnapped by extremists in Hebron on order from no one (unless you believe they really were from Hamas...even though the army already said they weren't and at least one career officer lost his job for not playing along). 5. Whom we now know from credible journalists from the Israeli press were under a gag order to report were already dead... 6. While Bibi mounted an emotional plea to support a search for survivors that he knew he wouldn't find... 7. And declared an all-out assault once the bodies were found. 8. And what happened after that would have been easy to predict.
The battle cry and it's true intent has nothing to do with misaligned actions of a few people. They should be intelligent enough to separate out the factors here.. but with people who are caught up in fervor that might be too much to ask. This goes for both sides.
almost all of that is incorrect and has nothing to do with what i wrote. Not a few. the amount of rockets Israel receives a day is unprecedented in the history of any country. The closest thing you will find is England during WWII.
# of rockets doesn't equal # of people behind them.. hamas are a small group compared to avg civilian gaza residents free palestine means they no longer have to live this.. but rockets coming from either direction are the least effective way to ever accomplish this.
I'm not referencing the similarity of the circumstances as much as how the occupier sets the tone. The US did this in Afghanistan and Iraq labeling people terrorists when in fact any citizen of either country had every right to fight and resist an occupation by the US. Americans would do no less. The Palestinians have crazies intermingled with people who have a legitimate cause to fight the Israeli occupation. Labeling them all terrorists just serves the story Israel wants told.
Yeah, let's compare grad rockets to the 500 to 2000 lb size missiles and mortars that Israel employs. Because, you know, those giant sized missiles aren't gonna have much collateral damage in the most densely populated placed on Earth.
It has everything to do with the fact that what you wrote is a gross oversimplification and a clear demonstration of your lack of familliarity with the topic. If you are going to wear the hat of an idealogue, and misquote hasbara talking points, you're going to have to do work harder than that unless you want to want to be a copywriter for the Yesha Council newsletter. Nothing I posted hasn't already been written by Nahum Barnea in at least 4 languages who is pretty much the consensus trusted jouranalist in Israel.
Trust me when I say...I'm lousy at parties and keeping conversation light, but as I said, I wasn't singling anyone (no, not CometsWin) out. It's a very complicated subject, with human lives at stake, and if those lives aren't people you are close to, it can often be a place where people who are otherwise very civil and reasonable find themsleves unusually comfortable projecting their own political and religious identities into a situation where it doesn't fit as neatly as they think it does. For me, it's a subject I know well. I studied Israeli history as an undergrad and I lived there for nine years. I went to grad school there, I had an Israeli wife, I owned a business there, and I played music in a band that did well enough to get radio play there and tour internationally (not that that's saying much, especially these days). There was a time when I had the luxury of believing hasbara, even as I studied history, but that was very quickly challenged by the reality of living there. Reading about a place, or even visiting one for extended period just isn't the same as spending a siginifcant portion of your life there, especially if you aren't lucky enough to have a rich daddy to help you live in your American bubble, whether it's a right-wing religious one or a liberal East coast one -- neither have much to do with life in Israel, even with those that would consider of a like mind. D&D discussions about Israel are for me what high basketball IQ Rockets fans experience when they encounter casual fans talking about how the Rockets only won championships because "Jordan wasn't playing" or when the kids in the GARM want to trade every player after a bad game or fire Morey when he can't guarantee a championship. I want to respond every time, but it gets tedious and I start to feel like a boring professor. I lurked for years reading basketball discussions, because I was self-aware enough to understand that just because I really liked the Rockets didn't mean that I had much to contribute to the discussions that were happening in the clutchcity.com days. I didn't post every kneejerk thought I had -- I read and did my best to understand what others were saying and watched a lot of games (eventually in person in LA when the Rockets came to town and I had the income to permit it). And I learned an awful lot about basketball because of this board that I would never have acquired from ESPN talking heads, the newspaper, or the chattering of my friends and family in Houston. I got to the point where I as making friends with the player's wives and friends at Lakers and Clippers games and passing info to Clutch (notably when Hakeem was on the outs and headed for Toronto), too afraid to post and face the scrutiny of naysayers and too eager to share with those that care to keep it to myself. But the more you truly know about something, the more you are aware of what you don't know, as well as when someone is talking nonsense, or feeling like they have to say something to defend their team fandom / the president they voted for / the religion they grew up with / etc that often has nothing to do with the facts of the topic at hand. I crave engagement, especially about topics like religion, politics and culture, which is totally my bag -- and sometimes I might find it in the D&D, but not in this thread, which is overflowing with stupid. We're Rockets fans and we really shouldn't give a crap about Dwight Howard's or Omri Casspi's opinion about a war in Israel, other than to feel some genuine empathy for their concern for those affected. May you never have explosions in your neighborhood because of...anything. Ever. There a lot of posters here from as a wide a background as anyone will find anywhere, with one thing in common: We love the Houston Rockets. And I come here to be with people who share that passion with me, and I always try to be mindful of that when I respond to anyone and respect everyone here. But some of you need to STFU and let the grownups talk. Seriously. Get back to talking about free agency and try to be coherent, use complete sentences, refrain from posting unless you know what you're talking about and show some respect for the house that Clutch built. I live in Austin now. You kids have me a step away from teaming up with Deckard and Tinman to create the Old Dudes Superfriends and taking my long-winded grumpy old man powers to the next level. I'm going to leave you with photos, so you know what I did in Israel: Sometimes in a galibiya and a Longhorns hat Sometimes in my dildo era shooting shirt Sometimes breaking the law And often comforting my troubled PTSD addled dog Gever, who just got to miss his fifth war and got to piss on St. Augistine grass in South Austin instead. Now lock this thread and stop being dicks about this.
Because dwight his millions of followers while casspi has thousands. Also, dwight is a neutral party, casspi is expected to take his side. Easy to say that when you are safe in your home.
After reading this thread, I realize most posters are biased and dont know much. I still have a few questions: Who is Hamas? Are they the Palestinian army, or rebels or both? I remember hearing about Hamas rebelling in Libya. Are they the same terrorist organization? Are there any videos of the attacks in Israel? On twitter, I am seeing apartment buildings in Palestine being specifically targeted by controlled drone missiles. This means they have a satellite camera over all of Palestine. They don't seem to be after Hamas at all. They should easily be able to target Hamas while Hamas is shooting rockets into Israel. I have read the Hamas rebels are not supported or funded by Palestine at all. If true, who funds them? How do they get their weapons? Isn't there a blockade?
This is an important line. My suspicion is that the Muslims in this thread are doing just this. They have sympathy for their fellow Muslims and only see things through their biased viewpoint. Hell, we have people in this thread that can't even bring themselves to say that Hamas is a terrorist group! That tells you all you need to know.
I'm not sure how you meant this response, HCA. Dwight's neutrality and millions of followers will cause a firestorm anytime he gives a political opinion, but I don't think that gives him a moral obligation to keep his opinions to himself or only choose positions that agree with the readers (which you may or may not be implying). Alternatively, Casspi can say or do whatever he wants because he won't produce ESPN clicks if they write an article about him, where Dwight will. Casspi lives in relative obscurity in the collective U.S. consciousness. This whole story line is bogus anyway ... a non-issue. Lebron and Jordan got blasted for being a-political, Dwight gets blasted for being political. ESPN generates page-hits in both cases.
Your last two lines are the gist of it. It is difficult to explain these things because there are two sides that care deeply. Dwight has fans from both sides and he cant say anything without upsetting one of them. Casspi fans are most likely Jewish, and not from Palestine.
I have respect for a lot of what you've shared. Just please stop saying that it is complicated. It's not. Settler colonialism is pretty straight forward. If anything is complicated, it is the web of hasbara that fuels "Brand Israel" and keeps the wool over too many eyes.
And the muslim hater do the same thing. The problem is the people can't see the other point of view. I think if I was Jew or muslim and I could move I would just get out of there. Let the religious fanatics fight it out.
Too bad Gaza is an open air prison from which it's population may not leave. The vast majority of Gazans have been barred from exit for over 7 years now
Today, Close to 30,000 Israelis live in Berlin alone. Wow. They feel more at home and safer in Berlin than in Jewish Sparta. Hmm http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/culture/2014/05/so-long-israel-hello-berlin.html
moral war: when you force millions of people into a dense open-air prison, refuse them access to travel outside of it, impose a crippling economic blockade intended to punish and strip the economy of any potential, then drop munitions intended to cause immense disproportionate suffering---but at least you have the foresight of dropping pamphlets beforehand, warning Palestinian Joe that the meagre house they've constructed despite your restrictions is going to be blown to hell and back because well, the current Israeli political class cannot accept a Hamas-Fatah unity government. how upstanding!
