What are all these former players so threaten by what Steph Curry is doing?

If basketball was a gentleman's sport, (It you actually know what I'm referring to) then I would incline curry is the best. However, it's not. Can't really judge play on arbitrary calls... Face it people the calls go to the money. Nothing about this game is objective. Why do you think players nowadays follow money instead of the ring. All the players are playing for that next contract. That's all. Curry is the best spot up shooter in the game. Yeay!

 

I hope he surpass mj and become GOAT . So my curry rookie cards worth something down the line. Still missing a few to collect.

 

No. MJ was much more than just some athletic freak, he was an athletic freak but this is man that averaged 20ppg at the age of 40.

Jordan could get past any one he wanted, drain tough shots in your eye, dunk in your face, had post moves. for a wing player he is the most complete offensive player in the game. Was he a dead-eye shooter? No, but he made the shots when his team needed them.

Also, he was a great defender. Not just good, but great.

you keep going on and on about how great of a shooter Curry is and basketball is more than shooting threes.

I think this whole "Curry is revolutionizing the game" stuff is way overboard. Guys are not going to come in the game tossing up those threes. They can try, but it won't happen. Truth is, the guy has some otherworld markmanship that probably comes from a lifetime of shooting drills and apparently all the hand eye coordination drills he's done. It also comes from the fact that he can also create his own shot. If he couldn't, he'd just be another Korver or Thompson and at his size that would be even worse. There is not going to be some large group of Curry clones comes in because I don't think people realize all the work he's received on his shot and his dad being a NBA player didn't hurt.

He's not revolutionizing the game. He's Curry, the one and only. A great player...

Better than Kareem, Jordan, Hakeem, Shaq, Magic, Lebron, Bird, Duncan, Kobe...No. He's going to have to do a lot more than what he's done. More championships, more MVPs, and some FMVPs as well.

As of right now he is a fluke, a flash in the pan...because no one knows if he'll continue to to play at this level. It sounds harsh but that is the reality of the situation to a realist, not caught in any hype. I'm sure he'd tell you the same thing too. I know, some people gasp at the idea of that but he wouldn't be the first player to to have a few seasons better than other seasons. It happens.

This is not to belittle his accomplishments. If you told me that Harden would play 15 years for the Rockets and had one championship to show for it I'd say hell yes, sign me up right now for that one magical season.
No he deserved that ring he has, but when you are talking about GOAT then the standards are much higher than one championship and 2 MVPs.

 

I'm so sorry. Curry is fantastic but dude has an excellent supporting cast. The second best shooter in the league on his team who can also play defense and a playmaker like Draymond. If Rodman could shoot threes then MJ would have something close to what Curry has now. Pippen was great but his skills are very different from Klay's.

 

Are you actually saying that Pippen+Rodman < Thompson+Green?? Wow. Now I've seen everything.

 

Thanks Easy. I've often used the Miller analogy. Miller was an amazing shooter but extremely thin and a liability on defense. Curry is an amazing shooter who has a solid frame and can finish at the rim. He's good off the ball or with the ball and he's at worst a neutral commodity on defense. He would have been just fine in any era. Calling him GOAT is insanity at this point, but he very well could finish as top 10 of all time if he can maintain this for 5-6 more years.

 

http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_history.html

2001-02
• Illegal defense guidelines will be eliminated in their entirety.
• A new defensive three-second rule will prohibit a defensive player from remaining in the lane for more than three consecutive seconds without closely guarding an offensive player.
• The time that a team has to advance the ball past midcourt will be reduced from ten seconds to eight.
• Brief contact initiated by a defensive player will be allowed if it does not impede the progress of the player with the ball.

2004-05
• New rules were introduced to curtail hand-checking, clarify blocking fouls and call defensive three seconds to open up the game.

The scoring leaders completely changed from MJ, forwards and centers to Shaq and all guards. Guard scoring had unexplained spikes of on average 3-5 ppg while the forwards/centers declined significantly.

If the NBA itself says it's rules were to open up and space the floor for scorers, then yes, it is easier.

I find this thread hilarious though. Now not only is Curry the GOAT scorer with zero weaknesses and in contention for overall GOAT, but he is now the 2nd strongest player on his team behind only Ezeli? He's stronger than Bogut, Draymond, Iggy, Mo? I've heard it all. Curry is also the only GOAT who gets 5 seasons wiped off his record *doesn't count because he played with monta ellis* The entire defense is late to defend Curry drives because only Curry..nothing to do with 38-40% shooters all around the perimeter. Absolutely nothing to do with that. That's why he's been having these kind of %'s inside the paint his entire career. Oh wait, no, but that's because he played with Monta Ellis though.

 

The league is different now then when these guys played. Steph Curry is the embodiment of the new NBA. People are uncomfortable with change as they get older. No one wants to see their idols replaced by new idols, either.

You see it all the time outside of sports: "90s rap is better than today's garbage!" It's all a matter of opinion and can't be proven, but stems from people who are outside the scene wanting to be relevant by knocking the new generation. I'm an old man now, I catch myself doing it all the time. In my day...

 

We also established that athletes in all sports have become faster and stronger. Except Basketball, because the pinnacle of human perfection and strength is Michael Jordan. ;0

Hint: In the nineties Basketball was slow, team play was at a simplistic level. It demanded different skills. The idea that nineties star would easily crush everyone if they played nowadays is childishly oversimplification. Jordan would be a different player nowadays as he would need to be faster with a better handle due to the different rules. Would he be the best of the league? Very likely considering his astonishing talent. Is that a certainty? Of course not... it's impossible to proof either way.

You would think people realize each era has it's own stars who are hard to compare.

 

Gotta do it for more than 2 seasons

Rocket River

 

Perspective

Rocket River

 

True, but they have a point. The physicality of earlier decades forced the best players to get down and dirty. You could, with the emphasis on could, argue that players had to take a lot more punishment to get to where they are. Look at the MJ rules, how the Pistons tried everything to wear MJ down. It was almost like a boxing match where you hope the opponent's body gives up because of all the punches he takes. There's no telling and no point in arguing how Curry would've done under those circumstances. The point is to understand where some of these legends are coming from.

I have to say though, with rap music, there's no denying from a lyrical and activist' standpoint that the mainstream is not what it used to be. They used to have a lot more songs with a message. Even singles with a video for those typ of rap songs. It is more of a knock on the industry, the tv channels and what have you, than anything else. When rap came up, it was meant as a form of protest and give people from the 'ghetto' a voice. Now, not so much. Just my two cents on that

 

Thomas only had 9.827 points in 6 years? What a scrub!

 

That's a fairly ignorant perspective. In their first 6 years, Isiah Thomas played 474 games. Curry played 416. Additionally, Thomas began leading his team in FGA in his 2nd season. Curry didn't lead his team in FGA until his 4th season.

So compared to Curry, in his first 6 years, Thomas played in 58 more games, averaged more mpg, and played a more prominent role on the Pistons than Curry did with the Warriors.

And you're telling me he had better raw stats?!?!

 

Thank you!

 

So why was it easier to score back in the days? Higher per game scoring, Higher shooting percentages, more free throw, and more fouls called per game than today. How could more fouls have been called back then? I thought it was a mans game where fouls weren't called.

Stats say otherwise.

 

Jordan would need to be faster? Better ball handling? You need to brush up on your MJ abilities.
You think DWade at 6'3 and a 36 inch vertical and not nearly the quickness and explosion of MJ can be a superstar and be up there ranked 3rd best SG ever playing in this era but MJ would have a tough time being the best player today in this supposed athletically superior league that has seen Steve Nash win 2 MVPs, Dirk win an MVP/FMVP and dominate an athletic superfriends team and now Curry who was scouted as too slow and small win 2 MVPs? The Warriors and Spurs have no crazy athletes. They are beating everyone with skill and discipline. So i guess slow 80s and 90s teams would get destroyed by the athletic prowess of the Houston Rockets. Kyrie Irving and Matthew Deladova rotation would lock down any of the contenders backcourts from the 80s and 90s.

People who bring up the difference of eras in reverse have proof. MJ embarrassed all the young stars of the early 2Ks. He was averaging 25, 6, and 5 at 38 before his knee injury. Not even Kobe was getting those #s. In fact only 1 other player was averaging those numbers. T-Mac. MJ was dropping 50 and 40 at 38-40 years old on this supposed new modern era. Keep in mind his bday is in Feb. So he played half of his first season at 38, and the other half at 39, half of his last season at 39, and last half as 40 years old. 15-1 record his first season when he and Rip played healthy together. He did his thing. Doesn't take a genius to think he could average 10 more efficient points per game in his athletic prime(which would still be tops in the league) compared to himself at 40 in todays league.

He wasn't just scoring either. He was still playing stellar defense. Check out these facts:

Spoiler

Here is a full, complete, and updated note on Jordan's defensive impact with the 2002 Wizards, some of which was included near the end of the video starting at the 1:20:00 mark
____________________________________________________________________________________
Before the 2001/02 season started, Jordan was already dealing with
- having to skip 3 days of practice before the season opener in MSG because of fluid buildup in his knee
- recovering from 2 broken ribs (against Artest) and back spasms
- tendinitis in his knee and wrist
- and during the season Jordan had fluid drained from his knee multiple times

Outside of Jordan, the 2002 Wizards' only new additions were 5 bench players, 4 of whom where rookies that played very little minutes
- Tyronn Lue (20 mpg)
- Rookie Kwame Brown (14 mpg)
- Rookie Brendan Haywood (14 mpg)
- Rookie Etan Thomas (13 mpg)
- Rookie Bobby Simmons (11 mpg)

Jordan was the only new player on the 2002 team that had a significant impact and played significant minutes. The Wizards did add a new coach in Doug Collins, but as you'll see, the Wizards completely fell apart on defense (and in the W-L column) following Jordan's injury, even with Collins as coach.

Rip Hamilton played 78 games in 2000/01, but the Wizards were still
- 2nd worst in ppg allowed
- 3rd worst in opponent FG%
- 8th worst in team rebounding

Rip Hamilton also missed 5 weeks in the first half of the season (last week of December and almost all of January) when Jordan made the Wizards an elite defense in his 46 games pre-knee injury
____________________________________________________________________________________
PART 1 - OPPONENT'S PPG
2001 Wizards = 2nd worst in ppg allowed the year before Jordan came

Up to the injury game
2002 Wizards = allowed 92.2 ppg through 47 games (Jordan missed 1 game)
- would be tied for 6th-best in the league with the Pistons.

2002 Wizards = allowed 92.0 ppg in the 46 games Jordan played
- would be tied for 5th best in the league with the Nets

After Jordan's injury
2002 Wizards = allowed 96.8 ppg in the remaining 35 games
- would be ranked 19th in the league
- and fell to 11th in ppg allowed for the overall season.

and Jordan's defensive impact was improving as the season went on before his injury

The Wizards started the season off slow with a 2-9 start
- and allowed 98.4 ppg during the 2-9 start
- on pace for 5th worst in the league

In Jordan's last 35 games pre-injury after the 2-9 start
- the Wizards allowed 90.0 ppg
- on pace for 3rd best in the league

When Jordan and Rip Hamilton played together, they were 15-1 in their last 16 games together up to the injury
- The Wizards allowed 86.3 ppg in that 15-1 stretch
- Easily on pace for the best in the league
- The 2002 Heat were number 1 at 88.7 ppg allowed

With Jordan as the only major addition, the 2002 Wizards went from 2nd worst to easily the best in ppg allowed for the brief stretch that Jordan and Hamilton played together. After Jordan's knee injury, they were just outside the top 10 worst in the league, and Jordan still played 14 games after his knee injury. They would easily be top 10 worst in the league had he not played a few more games after his injury.
____________________________________________________________________________________
PART 2 - Opponent's FG%
The 2001 Wizards' opponents shot 47.0%, 3rd worst in the league

Through their first 47 games pre-Jordan's injury (Jordan missed 1 game)
- The 2002 Wizards' opponents shot 44.3%
- on pace for 11th best in the league

In the 35 games post-Jordan's injury
- The 2002 Wizards' opponents shot 46.4%
- on pace for 2nd worst in the league

And under Jordan, the Wizards improved on holding opponents to low FG% as the season went on

Wizards got off to a slow 2-9 start to begin the season
- The Wizards' opponents shot 46.8%
- on pace for worst in the league

In the Wizards last 36 games pre-Jordan injury (Jordan missed 1 game)
- The Wizards' opponents shot 43.6%
- on pace for 8th best in the league

The Wizards were 15-1 in the last 16 games that Jordan and Rip Hamilton played together prior to Jordan's knee injury
- The Wizards' opponents shot 41.7% in that 15-1 stretch
- Easily on pace for best in the league
- The 2002 Lakers held opponents to a league best 42.4%

With Jordan as the only major addition, the 2002 Wizards went from 3rd worst to the best in opponent's FG% for the brief stretch that Jordan and Hamilton played together. After his injury, they were 2nd worst in the league for the rest of the season.
____________________________________________________________________________________
PART 3 - IMPACT ON TEAM REBOUNDING
Jordan also had a huge impact on his team's rebounding, even though he was only third on the team in rpg

2002 Wizards = 43.27 rpg through 47 games pre-injury
(MJ missed 1 game)
- on pace for 9th best in the league

2002 Wizards = 43.39 rpg through 46 games that MJ played pre-injury
- on pace for 8th best in the league

2002 Wizards = 40.40 rpg in 35 games post-injury
- on pace for 4th worst in the league
- fell to 18th in rebounding for the overall season

and Jordan's impact on rebounding was also improving as the season went on

Wizards got off to a slow 2-9 start to begin the season
- averaged 40.36 rpg in that stretch
- on pace for 4th worst in the league

In Jordan's last 35 games pre-injury
- the Wizards averaged 44.34 rpg
- on pace for 3rd best in the league

Jordan was only 3rd on the team in rpg, but for whatever reason, his presence alone still made the Wizards an elite rebounding team, and they were a poor rebounding team after his injury. This probably has to do with the Wizards forcing opponents into low FG% under Jordan before the injury, which would lead to more misses and more rebound opportunities.

the Wizards went from one of the worst teams in ppg allowed, opponent FG%, and a poor rebounding team, to an elite team in all those categories with 38-year old Jordan as the only major addition, before his knee injury. and After his injury they immediately became a very poor team in all of those categories. And although it was only a 16 game stretch, the 2002 Wizards were easily the best in the league in ppg allowed and opponent FG% when MJ and Rip played together.

And even in just over a half-season, Jordan shut down many notable star players as a 38-year old man with tendinitis in both knees, and after getting his ribs broken in the offseason.

Paul Pierce
- 14 points on 6/16 with 4 TOs in their first meeting
- 2 points on 1/6 FG in the 4th quarter
- Pierce averaged 26.1 ppg on 44% that season
- top 20 all-time on the scoring list

Vince Carter
- 0 pts in the 2nd half in his first RS meeting with Jordan
- only attempted 4 total shots in the 2nd half because of Jordan's D
- averaged 25.8 ppg on 43% before an injury against the Spurs on Feb 7
- top 25 all-time on the scoring list

Latrell Sprewell x2
- averaged 19.4 ppg on 40%, but his scoring tailed off at the end of the season
- at the time of the 12-14-01 and 12-22-01 games against Jordan, he was averaging 20.7 ppg on 44% at the time of both games

Peja Stojakovic in the Feb 7, 2002 game that MJ was injured
- he didn't score on Jordan until his knee injury happened, and even after that injury, MJ still locked him down
- Peja averaged 21 ppg on 48% in 01/02, and would be a top 4 MVP candidate in 03/04
- top 10 all-time in 3pters made (will be top 15 at the end of this 15/16 season)

Shawn Marion
- scored 4 points with Jordan guarding him a few games after Jordan was injured, finished with 9 points on 4/10 (40%), and Jordan hit the game winner in his face

 

Haven't even read the thread but based on the first couple of posts I'm assuming 'what' is doing his usual thing...

 

Jordan would average 40ppg today with these soft defenses and not many true centers to protect the paint. It would be scary.

I'm going to compare MJ's game to our own just for the sake that everyone knows his game...Harden. He was a super athletic Harden with a post game.

Now, see how many fouls Harden gets (and MJ got a TON of fouls...) and realize that MJ was on another planet defensively than Harden and ultimately a better shooter than Harden. Harden scores at will in today's NBA but you know the games he struggles in? Games with true paint protectors...something the NBA valued a lot more in the 90s than now.

Now your big man needs to be versatile, protect the paint yes but also get out on a stretch big. Then, that was an alien idea.

Really, I think Jordan would utterly destroy today's competition. This is not really a knock on the talent. It's just that the NBA is less physical than it used to be and is slowly phasing out centers. Imposing shot blocking centers is how you stop guys like Wade, Harden, MJ from getting whatever they wanted in the paint and force them to rely on a somewhat unreliable jump shot...although it should be said that Jordan may not have been a dead eye shooter, his jumpshot did become very reliable.

 

No doubt. There are songs with a message now too, but like you said they just aren't mainstream. I think lyrically things are just as creative now as they've ever been, though. It's all very corporate now, but times are different. Mainstream tastes were going to change no matter what.