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What Are Advanced Statistics Really Supposed To Convey

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by pgabriel, Dec 8, 2012.

  1. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    I do not mean this as a sarcastic or critical. I appreciate Durvesa as a poster and I really like Daryl Morey and I think he finally made his signature move by stealing James Harden. I told someone last night, I would rather have harden not only over westbrook but i would take him over durant. so i'm not a morey hater, even though i will never forgive giving up gay for battier.

    that being said, i tried to follow the thread on playmaking ability and i just don't understand it. i don't understand it in the sense that i know harden is badass, and lin is sucking. lin may become badass again, i hope, but i don't need advanced statistics to tell me that. I don't need advanced statitics to tell kyle lowry is a more complete pg than aaron brooks, even though i was in the aaron brooks camp at first.

    my question is really, how are they used. morey clearly is a great talent evaluator especially in the middle of the first round of drafts and later. pat patterson was a steal, carl landry was a steal, aaron brooks, the list goes on and on. should we thank advanced statistics for this. a good player is a good player, the question is how much is a player worth? are statistics good for this. is morey one of the few gms that saw harden as a max player despite not being a starter. i've loved harden's game from two season ago. i have no problem or had no issues when hearing the contract numbers. does morey need stats to see something i can see watching the guy play.

    i don't need stats to tell me someone is an efficient basketball player. i'm not being arrogant, its just i'm 37 and i've been watching basketball long enough to know who is and who isn't efficient. i know i'll probably get killed by some older posters because i was a huge francis and one thing francis will never be confused with is an efficient basketball player. i loved francis for a lot of other reasons that i won't delve into, but believe me i know he wasn't efficient. the point is i don't need stats to tell me that.

    i remember some discussions on lineups, the supposed clashes between morey and adelman. are statistics best used in setting lineups? is it just talent evaluation? what decisions are being made based on these numbers?
     
  2. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    Just on your point about Harden and superstars, it's true that advanced stats aren't very useful.

    Everyone knows who the superstars are and everyone is trying to get them.

    It's not like anyone will "overlook" a a superstar by misreading stats.
     
  3. Johndoe804

    Johndoe804 Member

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    You, like anybody else, are giving players the eye test. As fans and students of the sport, I believe most people are capable of using their eyes to see the good things a player does on the court. Advanced statistics are a check on the eye test. If there is something about a player that you're seeing that makes him a great player, you should be able to record those events and form a testable hypothesis on those facets of the player's game.

    For example, anybody could see that Chuck Hayes was a pretty good rebounder and was excellent at initiating the offense from the high post under Adelman. Advanced statistics can tell you if what your eye is seeing is actually the case. You can look at how many points on average the team made when Chuck Hayes initiated the offense from the high post and compare that performance to other offensive schemes. You can look at the percentage of rebounds Chuck Hayes got out of the opportunities he had. You can see observe how well Chuck Hayes boxed out his opponents. Advanced statistics confirm what the eye sees, and help remove biases of the eye from player scouting.

    In the case of some national sports analysts, they'd show that these analysts are often biased toward the players they like; that they would think particular players are better in certain facets than they actually are based on careful tabulation of the events as they actually occurred. But for a team, they can be used to see how well a scout is scouting players, and so on. Hence their usefulness.
     
  4. Dr of Dunk

    Dr of Dunk Clutch Crew

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    They convey what you see or don't see is possibly true or false. :)

    It's not that difficult to understand. People act like Morey uses statistical analysis in place of "eyes" or something, when he's said repeatedly that he uses statistics as a tool and not necessarily the final say-so in arriving at a conclusion.

    Stats themselves can prove/disprove what you do see or reveal what you don't see. And despite what many say, no, you can't "see" what every player in the NBA is doing because you aren't watching every play of every player and who they play against in what situations 24 hours a day.
     
  5. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    Some things are obvious. Stats might be helpful even for the "obvious" stuff, because its never a bad thing to have more confidence that something is true.

    But there are a lot of things which aren't obvious, or maybe where conventional wisdom has it wrong. This is where the Rockets are really hoping take advantage with their number crunching analysts.
     
  6. nbafever

    nbafever Member

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    HOU is able to find good players in the 2nd round of drafts because they combine scouting with their statistical analyses of players
     

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