OKC messed up. If Westbrook was regarded more highly than Harden around the league, they should have taken advantage of that and moved him for more than they got for Harden. Instead they probably moved the better player and got less than they could have.
Harden is a better distributor (point) than Westbrook is. Harden is a more efficient scorer (by far) than Westbrook is. Harden sees the floor better than Westbrook does. Harden has higher bball iq than Westbrook has. Harden is the better player. Presti should have traded Westbrook for a king's ransom and kept Harden. Thankfully for us, he didn't.
You don't think OKC wanted to keep the better player? That thought never crossed your mind? That's like saying if Wade was regarded more highly than Bosh around the league, should they trade him too and take advantage? Obviously Presti believes WB provides more for that team than OKC and was willing to let him go. I'm sure it was a tough decision. And OKC will not know if they regret it or not unless WB costs them a Finals, or they don't appear in the Finals again. I'm sure Presti KNEW Harden would blow up on another team as a #1 option. EVERYBODY knew (not to this extent of what he did so far -- very amazing indeed ). But I don't think he's short-sighted to judge his trade after 2 games. WB and Harden are basically the same age. You judge them in a few more years down the line and see who is more accomplished in the league after this year, next year, and so on... Elite point guards (a 2-way player) is more rare than an explosive wing like Harden. There's only one other type of player like WB in the NBA and that's DRose, and he's injured. And both players are basically the same age. They'll both get better in the next 4-5 years. Both teams will be very happy with who they got, trust me.
The only advantage Westbrook has over Harden is his unreal athleticism and his deadly mid-range jump shot.
Elite point guards are plentiful today. And he's not a two-way player. All he does defensively is lay in the weeds waiting for the opportunity to steal and run. He's not a good defender. You can call Westbrook a point guard and you can call Harden a shooting guard. Doesn't really matter. Harden initiates and facilitates and makes better decisions and distributes the ball better than Westbrook. And Harden is going to have the ball in his hands in that role for the Rockets just as much if not more than Westbrook is going to be in that role with the Thunder.
I think Presti kept Westbrook over Harden because he gave his word to Westbrook that he was committed to him being in the Thunder for the future. Having given his word, he couldn't very well ditch Westbrook in order to keep Harden. Presti played an honorable game, just not the best game. He still got Lamb and draft picks out of it, so OKC will be fine.
Yeah. I suspect you are right. Similar to what happened to Martens with Dwight. They got caught up in their promises. Bad promise for Presti to make. He would have been better off to simply match Westbrook's offer sheet, then trade him, and kept Harden. But it really doesn't matter now. Except Morey finally got the best of one of these type situations. What goes around comes around.
Elite PGs are plentiful today? Say what? CP3/Dwill/WB/Drose/Rondo/Tony Parker (I'll put him there just for the sake of it). That's it. If you call that plentiful, then... I was wrong, WB is a playmaker. People restrict his role as a PG and expect him to play a certain way, which is wrong. It's like saying Dirk is a PF so why is he jacking up 3pt shots and not rebounding. Now that Harden is having his opportunity, let's compare at the end of the year when he has a full year as a #1 option. By the end of the year, if Harden keeps going at this rate, then sure, make that claim. I won't even debate you on that. Harden is playing on a "best player in the world" status right now. But it's 2 games. WB is a proven elite player; he's a top 10 player without question. Or he could have kept WB b/c he believes WB is the best fit for their future plans. I mean, the guy just put up 27/7/7 in the Finals, while Harden was disappointing. And both are 23.
This is a PG dominated league, I think that's pretty clear. There are a plethora of highly rated and talented PGs out there.
6 out of 30 teams, that's 20%. We're talking about ELITE. "Elite" is usually top 5% or even less of the population. And you haven't answered how many elite SGs there are.
Agreed/ But we're talking about "elite" PGs. Elite PGs aren't plentiful. The difference b/t highly rated and elite is huge. That's like comparing Carmelo Anthony to Kevin Durant. One is highly rated and talented while the other is elite. I think Presti and OKC think WB is the better fit with Durant, so they kept him. They knew Harden would blow up. Like I said, who wouldn't. The guy is too good to just average 16-17 ppg. So we're determine whether a player is elite by the % in the league, not by play? So 5% of 30 teams is 1.5. So only one player of each position is considered "elite" then?? SGs/SFs are interchangeable. They're called wing players. They already have Kevin Durant. And he can play the 2-4 easily. And WB himself can play the 1/2 without problem. OKC's 2 best players can basically cover positions 1-4 on both ends. That's my point. Just FYI, in the Finals last year, besides sticking LBJ on Durant, Miami stuck their other best perimeter defender on WB (either Wade or Battier). That should tell you something where WB/Harden's standing is as a player last year. And WB still put up 27/7/7. In Game 4 when WB exploded, Spo was forced to put LBJ on him for short stretches to slow him down.
Then that depends on what you mean by elite. If there is increased competition, then the standards for "elite" would consequently go up. I mean, how many "elite" centers are out there right now? If we are to judge in terms of stats Dwight Howard is the only one who qualifies as elite. But Roy Hibbert, who average 13/9 and Marc Gasol, who averaged 15/9 qualifies as the all star centers of last year, are they elite? There are a TON more "elite" PGs out there than there are elite players of any other positions. And a lot of up and coming players could equally make their case as an elite or near elite PG as well (Lowry, Irving etc.). I think the point is, you are far more likely to find an elite PG than say, an elite SG.
What qualifies a player elite? Well, how teams defend and game plan for the guy. That would tell you whether a player is elite. Do teams double Dwight 90% of the time? Do they double Hibbert 90% of the time? Do teams run most of their offense through Dwight or HIbbert? It's ridiculous to have to explain who qualifies as elite or not? Watch how they play and how teams defend them and how teams have to adjust their gameplans for them. Then you know. B/c their are so many good PGs nowadays, that's why it's even more special that you have an elite PG. That's like having the cream of the crop. It's like the center position back in 90s. B/c there were so many good centers, but having an "elite" one (Hakeem/patrick/DRob/Deke/Zo) consistently puts your team in a winning position. Now, who cares if you have a center or not? Dwight is the ONLY elite center. But does having a center really elevate your team to another level? The 2 best teams in the league last year didn't have one elite center. Hell, you can say either team didn't have an elite big man. But they had ELITE wing players, which there are plenty of.
There we go then. And it's not ridiculous to have to explain what "elite" is, the premise of an argument is to have your point clearly stated. Your definition of elite may be different to mine. Don't think it's ridiculous just because others can't read your mind. Also, if that is your definition of elite, then I think we could agree that there are A LOT of PGs out there where teams will have to make adjustments to, and A LOT of PGs where the offense primarily depends on them. CP3/Dwill/WB/Drose/Rondo/Tony Parker are the standards, Nash is up there easily but his performance thus far this season might drop him off. The offense runs through Kyrie Irving in Cleveland. Kyle Lowry has been the focal point of Raptor's offense so far (and arguably the focal point of our offense last season). Bottomline is, you will find a lot more elite PGs than elite players of any other position, and that's my point.
No. Let me spell it out to you. You claimed that elite PGs weren't plentiful. Then you listed out 6 of them. I told you 6 out of 30 was 20% which is plentiful by the normal definition of "elite." Okay go ahead and list out all the elite wing players and see how many there are.
EXACTLY! Elite SGs? Kobe and Wade. That's about it, if we don't mention Harden in the conversation yet... Don't tell me the now underachieving Joe Johnson and an injury prone and old Manu is still elite...
All things equal? Easily the Harden-for-Martin trade, and it has nothing to do with Harden's stellar performance in the past 2 games. On a young team like the current Rockets, it's critical to have a floor general (or two) who can set the tempo and calm the team down when needed. In this regard, Harden does it better than Martin, and Lin better than Westbrook. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Lin's a better player than Westbrook. I like Westbrook's athleticism and overall game, and there's absolutely no doubt he's very talented, but he can be out of control and way too gung ho sometimes. Lin, while playing an aggressive attack style, is "calmer" and much better at the helm.
Just like in the 90s, you will find more elite centers than any other position. And that point matters how? There's one elite center period. According to your definition, that's 1 out of 30 teams. Does that mean Dwight Howard is more special than a CP3 or a Westbrook? Look at the centers back in the 90s. Hakeem/Shaq/Patrick/Drob/Zo/Deke. Then you have the really good centers in Daughterty, Divac, Smits, Willis... You don't keep/let go of players b/c of that kind of logic. You base it on how good they are. In Presti's case, he picked Durant and WB. He might be right or wrong, but 2 regular season games don't determine his decision just yet.
Any player whose greatest asset is their explosiveness has a shorter, not longer lifespan..... Losing your greatest asset is terminal, and you lose it with age, just as it did with AI.
