Hypothetical scenarios..... If Alston or Mcgrady got hit for sure they'd get up and retaliate. If Yao got hit like that everyone would back him up starting with Ron. Nobody would dare to take a blow to Ron's head like that. The only players I don't think would do anything are Battier and Scola. Battier would probably get up and say something like "Hey buddy that wasn't nice." Scola would probably lay on the ground with his arms having a WTF look on his face. Not sure what Landry would do. Probably just play harder. You could probably catch Brooks up in the 10th row.
What I actually find funny about that foul is 10-15 years ago that might have been called as a simple foul with no repercussions. Now its a flagrant 2 where you get fined, most likely suspended, and generally thought of as a horrible person for doing such a act. My how the game has changed. From Men to Mice
People say this kind of thing all the time. Show me a video clip of this type of action that happened 10-15 years ago without a tech being called. I started following basketball closely in 1996 and haven't seen this "change". Perhaps you could provide me with a little proof.
By the way, if you don't think it was a hard foul - watch the first 10 seconds over a few times. West is way ahead of Miller going down the court, but he slows down so he can get his shot in. No attempt at playing defense whatsoever. Even Peja makes a "WTF" face at the 39 second mark.
http://archive.deseretnews.com/archive/122730/HARD-FOULS-IN-NBA-TO-COST-PLAYERS-SOME-TIME.html HARD FOULS IN NBA TO COST PLAYERS SOME TIME Published: Monday, Sept. 17, 1990 12:00 a.m. MDT Unless there is a fundamental change in their approach to the game, guys such as Charles Barkley, Rick Mahorn and Bill Laimbeer could be getting less playing time next season. National Basketball Association vice president Rod Thorn announced Sunday that the league will continue cracking down on violence in the game, and it will cost players playing time rather than money.The NBA competition committee, which is made up of one member from each of the 27 teams, recommended that referees be allowed to eject players who commit excessively hard fouls in the halfcourt. Also, the player fouled would receive two free throws and his team would retain possession of the ball. The recommendation still must be approved by the board of governors, who will meet in New York in late October, but that is usually only a formality. Although the league has had a flagrant foul rule, it did not cover situations where a player simply knocked a player to the floor on a drive to the basket. Thorn said refs would have new guidelines on such fouls, which before were treated as a two-shot foul. That will no longer be the case. If a player makes no attempt to play the ball and knocks the offensive player to the ground, he will be ejected. If he makes a play on the ball but still uses excessive force, he will not be ejected, but the offensive team will get two free throws and retain possession. Thorn pointed specifically to a Barkley foul on the Cleveland Cavaliers' Craig Ehlo during the playoffs. Thorn said Barkley made no attempt to play defense on the ball. "The hard foul in the half court seemed to have become an accepted part of our game," Thorn said. http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1136245/index.htm Before the season, NBA General Managers received a videotape of the Top 10 hits of recent years from the league office. They were not gifts that moved the G.M.'s to sing along. The tape is a medley of body shots that are violations of the new hard-foul rule, which was designed to help referees draw the fine line between physical and felonious play. The general managers saw, among other things: Rick Mahorn apply an elbow and send a soaring Michael Jordan to the floor, face-first; Charles Barkley, Mahorn's teammate in Philadelphia, put a shoulder into the exposed rib cage of an airborne Craig Ehlo; Bill Laimbeer use an outstretched hand to twist the face of a driving Jerry Reynolds; Scottie Pippen flatten a chugging Laimbeer with a necktie tackle. Until this season, the victim of such mayhem usually got two free throws only; on breakaway fouls the shooting team retained possession of the ball. Under the hard-foul rule, which seeks to penalize unnecessary and potentially injurious contact, a player who deliberately fouls another can be ejected from the game—and possibly fined and suspended; the victim gets two foul shots and his team will keep possession. The league has been weighing such stern punishment for three years. "We were going to get people hurt," says Rod Thorn, the NBA's vice-president of operations. "Players weren't going for the ball, they were going for a knockdown. It's just not part of the game to, in effect, dismember guys under the rules." The changes will give the league's 54 referees more freedom to adjudicate—and more pressure to perform. As the NBA tried to clamp down on fighting in recent years, players began to channel their feuds through hard fouls. The success of the Bad Boy Pistons also fostered a macho mentality—Drive our lane at your own risk—around the league. Throughout the body-slamming playoffs last season, particularly the Bulls-Bucks and 76ers-Cavaliers series in the first round, TNT commentator Rick Barry railed about potentially injurious D. "Pull any bozo off the street and he can play that way," Barry says. "What they were doing was penalizing the more gifted players." Laker general manager Jerry West favors an alternative to the hard-foul rule: "The same few players are doing it over and over again," he says. "Fines should be progressive—make them higher with each offense." By and large, the NBA's rank and file embraces the idea of hard time for hard fouls; the rule was unanimously approved by the league's 27-member competition committee and endorsed by its board of governors on Oct. 25. "Fifteen years ago there was a lot of violence," says Atlanta general manager Pete Babcock. "But the difference is that players were more sensitive to the danger of ending another player's career. You also didn't have the high fliers and dunkers 15 years ago. Guys like Dominique Wilkins who hang in the air are in real jeopardy." Says Sun forward Kurt Rambis, who makes his living playing physically, "I can stop you from scoring before you get your arms above your waist. Or I can knock you to the ground, which I think is ridiculous. I hope this puts a stop to that." Indeed, there is likely to be less dispute over hard fouls than current rules governing the other type of flagrant fouls—those called when a defender is excessively physical while making a legitimate stab at the ball. (The penalty is two free throws and possession.) When the NBA screened 20 examples of excessive fouls at its meeting in Boca Raton, Fla., coaches howled at about seven of them. "Laimbeer rarely goes for the ball, but he always puts his body against his man when the guy shoots a layup," Chicago coach Phil Jackson says. "He's so good at it you can dispute it every time." Which brings us to the referees, who will define the new rule by the way they call it. "I'm not in favor of giving officials more latitude," says Phoenix president Jerry Colangelo. "But somebody has to take control." The current herd of zebras—more than half of whom have less than five years of experience—will have to navigate some difficult waters. Laker center Mychal Thompson: "The refs will overreact to establish their authority." Detroit center Tree Rollins: "The problem with the younger referees is that they go [strictly by the book]." The first test of the changes came in St. Louis, in the fourth period of an Oct. 13 exhibition game between the Clippers and the Pistons. And no, it wasn't a Bad Boy who was punished, but L.A. center Benoit Benjamin, who last posted up hard in a Wendy's to-go line. Without trying for the ball, the 7-foot, 260-pound Benjamin plowed into 6'1", 185-pound Isiah Thomas, who had a clear path to the basket for a layup. Benjamin was banished and Detroit went on to win 118-111. "There will probably be complaints at first, but our players always adjust to new rules," says Thorn. "As long as the calls are consistent." Unfortunately I currently don't have time to find videos, but I will post them when I can find time. And i'm not trying to come off as an a$$, but if you watch a game from the 80's, and a game now-a-days you would notice a massive difference in how people were guarded. It was truly amazing that some of the players back then had careers that lasted that long. Especially when you see how hard the fouls were. Take this how you want to, in my opinion, take Kobe and Lebron and throw them into the 80's, and take Dream and Jordan and throw them into the present, Kobe and Bron would not be as efficient, whereas Dream and Jordan would be ungodly unstoppable. But thank you for your opinion, and I do respect it. Have a nice day
Oh and 3814, I loved that you pointed out the Peja WTF face, it was funny and saddening a the same time. You know you messed up when your teamates cant believe that you could play that dirty.
remove this thug from the all star game and fine him $100,000 for cancer research charity. now i feel worse for big al's injury. he should be on the all star team.
david west has always whined, i had to see him beat up on my college team for 4 yrs...he has always cried and acted like a punk.
I find it funny when people who have never played in the NBA, even organized bball, try to act all tough and say this isn't a flagrant foul. Try putting yourself in Millers shoes and see if that was just a "love" tap. Because we all know getting hit in the back of the head/neck by a 6"9' 240 lb athletic dude hurts nothing more than a high five.
First off, of course we knew he would get suspended. It's not like he is a Laker or anything. Secondly, the league is a whole lot less physical today. How can anyone honestly not agree with that? Yeah, a tech "may" have been called on hard fouls back then...but you wouldn't get kicked out of the game. You could fight and still play in the game back then actually. The Kobe & Bron in NY debacle is a perfect example of how soft this league has become, on average. Two players are coming in and lighting you up...it's know they will try before the game...they are trying to out-do each other and crack records on you and they still get to cakewalk to the lane....untouched? Every older player that I saw comment was like "you gotta put them on their a$$".
Thanks for the links Simos. I agree that the league was more physical, but I was just disagreeing that they didn't crack down on it. It looks like they did crack down on it financially, just not through ejections or suspensions. Good reads - thanks!
I'd like to see him try that on artest and have him sent to the dentist. Things like that dont belong in a nba game. There should be a harsher punishment to avoid similar actions in future. Serious injuries can occur if your sole intention is to hurt a player and not play the ball.
most uneven poll ive seen in a while lol, it was obvious that was a flagrant he basically punched him
