They had maybe one season of being healthy together, the rest of the time, it was like the two played maybe half a season together every year.
They were a bust for sure. Not one conference final and only one second round appearance that TMac didn't play in. If Yao wasn't a cash cow for Les, the Rox would most likely be looking to unload Yao in 2011 just like Mcgrady. I hope it gets handled better than the TMac mess if the Rox do decide to dump Yao.
Lets clarify the statement They didn't work out for the playoffs. Regular season they did pretty good
I dont consider them overrated because when they were healthy and had a decent supporting cast they ran off a 12 game winning streak in a dominant fashion. After Yao got injured they ran off 10 more games. It would have been 26 games in a row had Yao not been out against Utah with an upper respiratory infection. IMHO the rockets team that ran off the streak prior to the Yao injury was the best one of the decade. Had they been healthy I feel they could have gone all the way. In the playoffs they were constantly short handed. I dont care what anyone says if you take Robert Horry from the 02 Lakers and add him to any of the playoff teams that Yao and McGrady were both playing on and things would have been very different. This duo was not overrated, it was unlucky...
It was a combination of bad role players and JVG's coaching on offense. It was basically, get the ball to Yao and McGrady and get out of the way or else he would of took them out of the game and talk mess about them to the reporters. We didn't have role players like Fisher, Horry, Posey. Aaron Brooks came a year or 2 too late. He would of helped big time during our battles with the Mavs and Jazz.
No doubt they were, just not enough competitive fire; however, their supporting casts were second rate, maybe third rate. Yao is soooo slow, and TMac is soooo laid back, they were in slow motion in super fast league.
That's not true either. The best they got was No.4 spot, had they been able to be No.1 or No.2, the first round would have been much easier and likely they'd be in WCF at least once.
I don't think they were overrated it's just the fact that we have two superstar twigs. Their record together says it all. Why didn't we advance with them you ask well maybe it has to do with match up problems. Mcgrady is not Kobe and Yao is not shaq. I don't care what anyone says but I would have loved to see the two of them play together again As for the role players they are older and understand everything now. They did say it takes about three years to fully understand RA offense and this is year three. Mind me our rookies weren't really playing like rookies. It's sad how things are going now and I'm sure any true rockets fan would love or had love to see this team fully healthy with everyone playing together. It is what it is and I hope everything is resolved in the next couple of weeks.
If we are talking about production and what they have to show for on the big stage, then yes, unfortunately, they were an overrated duo. It was actually more of an overrated trio of McGrady-Yao-Gundy.
When Yao and Mcgrady were in their prime, we had glaring weaknesses at the PG and the PF positions. Now, those positions are our strengths, and the wing and center positions are weaker. If we had the Yao and Mcgrady from the previous years on this team I believe we would be contenders.
I disagree with about 97% of the responses in this thread and play devil's advocate against the casual "oh, they're overrated and not good as Shaq or Kobe (which is kind obvious, whoever said they were...I know that no one from Fox Sports and ESPN never made such a claim, in Yao's case he hasn't even been as good as Rik Smits): 1. Yao and/or T-Mac are pretty much the one of a few reasons that the Rockets were able to reach the playoffs in the 1st place for about a good seven seasons. or taken seriously as team. Also, again, I can't find to many superstars in the league who single-handily took their team the 2nd round of the playoffs or deeper by themselves, outside of maybe Moses Malone, Rick Barry, LeBron James, and Larry Bird year one. I've never known to many NBA teams to win a championship with only one productive player on the roster with a lowly ranked defense. 2. Team defense, which everyone thought was king with JVG. I thought it was good, but no great, which is another reason why we weren't as good as the Spurs or Pistons (nor as talented). 3. Please stop comparing us to the Lakers, a team who has had one of the more talented teams from top to bottom for a good portion of the last 30 years. Through the Kobe years right now (started in 04-05) to the Shaq years, then Van Exel/Divac stages to the end of the Showtime era back to the acquisition of Kareem Abdul Jabbar in the mid 70s and as further back as the Baylor and West years. For the most part of their history, they've fielded competitive team that was able to acquire (buy) enough talent to reach the playoffs, whether it was superstars, like Magic, Shaq, Kobe, or Jabbar or pretty decent players, like Divac, Van Exel, and Ceballos. Basically, it is like comparing an run of the mill MLB franchise to the Yankees. It just wouldn't be fair, unless it was another team that was competing just as ferociously on the field and off of it over small period of time (2000s Red Soxs). cont . . . The Rockets have almost never had the talent to match the Lakers, except a few odd years and few surprising upsets (like 1981 and 1986). Two series that Rockets weren't expected to win, while the Rockets did put a great fight last season against heavily favorite Lakers. Our two histories aren't even comparable. On one side, you have team that is in a very big market and has pretty much gotten or had every big FA name on the market for a bargain or received favorable #1 draft pick (trading with incompetent franchises). Next, you have a team that has had a history of not drafting well (see the 2000s draft picks of the Rockets, pre Morey), the Rockets franchise just has not been spectacular at drafting reliable rookies. 4. Again, you can't compare Kobe to T-Mac. Just as I said, you can't compare MJ in his first five to seven seasons to Kobe, in regards to team accomplishments is because Kobe started the first eight years of his career on a team that was already championship caliber or among the top 5 teams in the league. The first year Kobe arrived in LA, he played on a team that already had Shaq on it along with Elden Campbell, Rick Fox, Eddie Jones, Nick Van Exel, and etc. Later on a title squad with Glen Rice, Robert Horry, Derek Fisher, and Shaq. MJ didn't play on team that talented until the Bulls championship run, which was about seven or eight seasons into MJ's career (which at time was about to be abruptly ended). At the same token, you can't compare Kobe's run of success with T-Mac's. I'd imagine, if T-Mac (or even Gervin, Pistol Pete, or Dominique) played on a talented team, like the Lakers, Spurs, or Celtics. His career accomplishments would increase a ten-fold. 5. Yao Ming is not in the same league with Shaq, Moses, Akeem, or Russell (that's obvious and what other centers are . . . exactly), but I think he is without a doubt in the list as far as top 15 to 22 centers ever. He could be higher, but his healthy has obviously push him much further away from the elite group or the "holy" top 10. I believe he could still push himself into the solid 15, if he can recover from the injury and win a title. (Remember, he isn't too old, yet and still is among the top 5 centers in the league, even when injured). It's kind of funny that people on this board seem to try and compare him career wise to Shaq, when he obviously isn't as great as the Big Diesel. Then argue that he is overrated, and shouldn't be all-star, he's soft and weak on defense. Yet, I can't find another center who has been able to produce as well as Yao has outside of TD (who is mostly power forward), Shaq (in decline), and Dwight Howard. One can look at his peak numbers, the best 4 or 5 years of his career, and see that he is essentially in the company of elite players in the game and even better than some players who are already in hall of fame. Like many other high scoring guards and big centers, I can also say for Yao is that he has never really played on a team that was championship caliber or top 6 team without him, except maybe last year. It's not only it being with another superstar, but being on team without players who can score, play above average defense, and hit open shot. If you look at the roster that he has played on and teams he started with, then there is almost no comparison. Luther Head, Ryan Bowen, David Wesley, Bobby Sura, Juwan Howard, Jon Barry, Ryan Gomes, and most of all Rafer Alston were starting on JVG teams. It's strange those players were so highly coveted in Houston, yet on other teams they're all limited to backup roles in case of injuries. Most of the big games that Houston won in the period with T-Mac and Yao were mainly because of T-Mac/Yao. From 13 in 30, the comeback against the Suns in 2005, pushing the Jazz/Mavs to 7 games, and finally getting past the 1st Round. It's strange, that alot of posters on this board accredits the supporting cast for getting us past the 1st Round and ready to ship Yao (or T-Mac) out of town on the first decent offer. Yet, Portland's main concern in the series was Yao Ming and the team's top performer, while T-Mac played outstandingly against the Jazz and Mavs (and even the Pistons in his Magic years). You can't always fought the superstars for not coming through, when the team loses or is not having success in the playoffs. Again, I will point to players, like Nique, Mourning, Pistol Pete, Bernard King or Connie Hawkins. Were they not superior talents, because their teams weren't good enough to make past 2nd round more often. It's a good argument, because not so clear cut given the talent of team and competitiveness of the opposition. I think superstars can get the blame for the losses (in certain cases), if he is not producing what he did during the season or is not helping the team win (while he is on the floor) against superior opponents. But if his team is overmatched, more times than not, they aren't going to win (Lebron in 07 Finals). They are very few superstars in the league's history, you could replace LeBron with and give the Cavs a chance of beating a very good Spurs team. I think T-Mac/Yao can shoulder some of the blame, like LeBron did in 2007. But definitely not most of it, which comes from having an inferior team or roster. Also, if a player becomes often injured you can be upset about it, but not as much to the point to dislike the player or say he is overrated in context of the game. Injuries aren't purposely self-inflicted, while the player is exactly wishing it on himself, especially Yao. I'd imagine (even with his injury history), if he played with more than adequate power forward in his prime, like Otis Thorpe, Charles Oakley, Horace Grant, or Elden Campbell with maybe some good outside shooters, like Dennis Scott, Rick Fox, Nick Van Exel, Kenny Smith, Michael Bibby or Hideo Turkoglu. Yet, had T-mac still a guard. His career would look much different, now. . Also, I'd imagine he'd would've help improved a quality team (a guard or shooter heavy team) that lacked a decent big man in the middle. Finally, I can say that he has never had a chance to play on a team that had legitimate shot of winning the title, like T-Mac. 6. We have a funny crowd on this forum, we either have a solid shot at WCF, if we win (which means that we are better without having a superstar or a player pretending to be a superstar), but if we lose we definitely aren't making it to playoff. I don't really understand that. Maybe, it is just the nit picking nature of fans, the team needs this or that, yet you see teams every year win without having certain advantages in place. Except for maybe talent and heart. These kind threads tend to be knee-jerk reaction ones, in which many posters do not exactly recall things as they were or what circumstances of the league were when T-Mac/Yao played together. Yet, I attest that the Rockets with T-Mac/Yao alone weren't generally considered a great team (a great duo, but that doesn't make a great team alone). For one, this was in a league that was dominated by the Spurs, Lakers, Suns, Pistons, Kings, and Heat. Would Yao/T-Mac alone be able to better those teams in a series, given the terms of equal healthy on both sides? Hard to say, but probably not. It's funny people are saying Yao/T-Mac, but not the Houston Rockets. With that note, I would say to question above would the Rockets be able to beat those teams in a playoff series with Yao/T-Mac? I'd still say probably not, because the Rockets weren't talented enough at pg, pf, or the bench to win or to score points against great defenses. Especially, since the team couldn't score points to save their lives, which is more about coaching than the superstars scoring a majority of the points. If Yao and T-Mac did happen to win the NBA Championship in 2005 or 2007, it would've either been a historically run for the ages (2005) or one of the weakest NBA teams to ever win an NBA title (2007). For them to win 2005, they would've beaten the Spurs (who eventually won), the Pistons (the defending champions who help end the Shaq/Kobe Lakers and defeated a Shaq/Wade team), and the run and gun Suns (with the MVP Steve Nash). That would've been a very improbable run. Quite possibly, the greatest run in NBA history. We would've done what one other team in history is done, which is beaten multiple 60+ win teams and teams near 60 wins, while not having home field in any series. 58 win Mavs, 62 win Suns, 59 win Spurs, and 54 win Pistons. Yao Ming and T-Mac would have to be consider top 20-25 players ever, automatically. Since, they would still be the only two or three players that any other team would want as a significant player or contributor. Yao Ming would also have to be considered the best center in the league, no doubts about it (but given history as it is, it probably wouldn't happen as such). He didn't even make All-NBA in 04-05. For the fact that those teams had already beaten the Shaq/Kobe Lakers (with and without a great supporting cast), yet a much weaker duo comes along thrashes Spurs and Pistons (two defensive juggernauts) and slow down one of the best offenses of the new millennium (Suns). I'd imagine, if Yao/T-Mac did have series of their lives (averaging 25 to 31 ppg and 12+ rebs/4 blks a game for Yao, while being force in the paint), they would somehow fall short of beating all of three of those teams, because the lack luster supporting cast and offensive ineptness. In the NBA thread about which players had toughest run to championship win, T-Mac/Yao's run would rank in the level of Hakeem 93-95 and Isiah Thomas with Pistons in 88-89. 2007, Would've cemented their careers and propel them automatically into HOF, but . . . in the grand scheme of NBA history, it would've been seen as one of weakest runs to NBA title ever. The Rockets would've only had to beat one good team (Suns or Spurs) and three slightly above average teams (Cavs, Warriors, and Jazz). Yao probably would've won the Finals MVP having a great series against the Cavs . . . they've never stopped him, especially when the refs aren't playing favorites. He might've been unstoppable or in often foul trouble against the Warriors, but I don't think it would've matter as the Rockets might've beaten soundly, anyway. The Warriors weren't a strong team in any sense, except for being the Mavs's kryptonite. I could replace the Mavs with the Spurs, Suns, Pistons, or even a weaker version of the Lakers and that is pretty winnable series for all of those teams. You'd often hear that the Rockets run was a product of weak NBA talent, not too many powerhouses, and an era of weak centers. They never had to play the Lakers (good version, like last year's team or a Shaq team) or deal with Pistons or Celtics. Yao would instead be consider an all-time great center, more easily than say just a good top 5 center (who people rarely mention unless he wins a starting spot for the NBA all-star game, which is only because of Chinese votes...wow). He still wouldn't be considered in top 10 for centers ever, possibly top 15 by the powers that be. I've notice that MSM (sports) hasn't really attributed much to him, anyway, when he has produced or helped the team get to the next level. He'd have to add more to his career for some reason in the eyes of MSM and even our own fans. I don't think people would see him as first ballot of HOF, yet. Which is strange, because I've seen players with worse numbers and only one title be considered all time greats. T-Mac could probably retire. He would've have done everything in the league, except win an MVP. You'd hear people say he might should've received over Nowitzki (2007) or Nash (2005). That's the only thing missing from his resume. He has scoring titles and good career numbers. His toughness or ball-stopping style of play wouldn't be questioned as much. He still wouldn't be considered as great as Kobe or LeBron, but he'd be on his way to first class seat and ballot in the HOF. Only having 4 players score in a game, would kind of prove all of the above and JVG would be considered a good defensive minded coach, but not great coach. Not on par with Larry Brown, yet still he'd have to be credited a little bit more respect for a title.
The biggest mistake the rockets made was going into win now mode and trading a high lotto picks for a role player. We can listen to the crunching of the numbers and many can talk about metrics, but that move alone started a dominoe effect that resulted in this team being nothing special. When the spurs were in win now mode, they developed parker,jackson,and manu. When the magic were in win now mode, they got vince carter. The cavs got shaq,moon, and parker. When the pistons felt they were one player away, they got rasheed. The lakers with kobe barking in everyones ear about winning got gasol. We go into win now mode after a lotto season and come out with shane battier! That was the end of a team that couldve been alot better. Yeah, the injuroes played a part,but that move led to other moves and the trading away of future draft picks imo. Argue if you may, but we're in the middle of no mans land right now and neither of our wing players are as good as ronnie brewer or rudy gay.
Yao Ming being soft as tissue and not getting rebounds. McGrady being soft as a baby's head lacking a Peyton Manning competitive nature.
I just think Rockets fans in general are full of it. this has to be the most fickle group of people...especisally on this board. bash tmac....now bashing yao. if the rockets can't land a solid scorer...and this group of 2nd and 3rd stringers can't make the playoffs....you guys will want to ship them off too. just give it some time.
Think about it. What if a God of basketball told you 'I'm gonna give you another chance. I can give you healthly Yao Ming and healthly Tracy McGrady (in his prime) once again' Would you agree. Would they advance in the playoffs?
