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Wave of Islamist terror attacks in France, Tunisia, Kuwait

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by AroundTheWorld, Jun 26, 2015.

  1. dmoneybangbang

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    No this is what happens when the Wests divides up the Middle East along geographic borders instead of cultural ones in order to secure one of the most prized resources of the modern age.

    We've been deposing and propping leaders in that region on how well they align with our interests. It seems that instability has created great inequality and high unemployment. Poor people without much chance for opportunity tend to get angry and violent as human history has shown.
     
  2. dmoneybangbang

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    Which president has even had a 50% success rate in the Middle East?
     
  3. NicktheBrick

    NicktheBrick Member

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    Israel makes U.S. policy in the Middle East and Israel has cultivated Al Qaeda and ISIL as "brownshirts" in their anti-Iran strategy. Left to our own devices, Iran is a far more likely ally than any of the GCC States. But Israel seeks first the extinction of Iran then to deal with the Caliphate. Israel's foreign policy has led to direct U.S. involvement in the removal of secular dictators in the Middle East (and now Northern Africa) in exchange of militant Sunni Islamist states.
     
  4. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    I called it. Some idiot had to come and blame Islamic fanatism on Israel.
     
  5. dmoneybangbang

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    Well they certainly are doing themselves any favors in that region.
     
  6. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    So the idiots are saying that Israel is now responsible for an Islamist beheading someone in France, for a Tunisian Islamist murdering 39 people on a beach and for Sunni Islamists blowing up a Shiite mosque in Kuwait.

    Always convenient to have a scapegoat that you can blame EVERYTHING on, no matter how illogical that is, right? :rolleyes:
     
  7. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    [​IMG]
     
  8. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    27% of French Muslims between 18 and 24 have a positive opinion of ISIS (Newsweek)

    40% of British Muslims want Sharia law in the UK (Daily Telegraph)

    45% of British Muslims say 9/11 was an Israeli/US conspiracy (CBS News)

    And, e.g.:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    These are not tiny minorities within Islam. These are very large percentages of people who largely agree with what ISIS is trying to institute.

    In fact, Saudi Arabia is not that different from ISIS in terms of societal rules and their interpretation of Shariah.
     
  9. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    Are you saying 27% of French Muslims agree with terrorism? Are you really that dumb? C'mon. Of course you are. misinterpreting polls and misrepresenting things (like the fact that poll is old and taken before ISIS became famous for it's beheadings). That's your MO.
     
  10. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    Since you apparently had difficulties clicking on the link and reading it:

    http://www.newsweek.com/16-french-citizens-support-isis-poll-finds-266795

    And if you want something more current (from two weeks ago), here is an article by a Muslim (Tarek Fatah):

    http://www.torontosun.com/2015/06/16/face-reality-many-muslims-support-isis

    Face reality: Many Muslims support ISIS

    In the last week of May, the Qatar-based Arabic news network Al-Jazeera polled its Arabic-language audience on the question: “Do you support the victories of the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS) in your region?”

    The results were shocking. Of the 56,881 Arabic-speaking respondents, a whopping 81% voted yes.


    The results of this online survey may not be scientific.

    But they do provide anecdotal evidence of what many see as a rise in the support of Islamism in the Arab Middle East, among Muslims in the Indo-Pakistan subcontinent, and in the diaspora in Britain and France.

    On Monday, a 17-year-old Briton became that country’s youngest suicide bomber after he blew up a brand new SUV packed with explosives in the northern Iraqi town of Baiji.

    Talha Asmal had Arabized his name to Abu Yusuf al-Britani and is the latest young person used by jihadi Islamists as cannon fodder in their quest to establish an Islamic caliphate.

    This as laid out in sharia law, as a precursor to the Islamic Armageddon enshrined in Hadith literature, based on Prophet Mohammed’s prophecy.

    In the wake of news reports about the British teen’s act of terror, another story emerged about three UK-based sisters taking their nine children and linking up with their brother inside Syria to join the ISIS jihad.

    Here in Canada, the RCMP came up with their own startling revelation.

    They have arrested Somalian Ali Omar Ader, an alleged extremist and hostage taker they say was involved in the kidnapping of Canadian freelance journalist Amanda Lindhout in Somalia in 2008. He was visiting in Ottawa.

    South of the border, two Pakistani-American brothers were convicted on terrorism charges earlier this month.

    Raees Alam Qazi and Sheheryar Alam Qazi confessed to planning a terrorist attack on New York City landmarks and were sentenced to 35 and 20 years in prison, respectively.

    While these and other incidents of Islamist terrorism keep occurring at regular intervals, the explanation for what is happening remains the same.

    That is, that these individuals are not acting in the name of Islam. That Islam has been “hijacked” by the terrorists.

    This is what the family of Britain’s youngest suicide bomber told the media:

    “As a family, we would like to take this opportunity to unequivocally state that ISIS are not Islam. They do not represent — in any way, shape or form — Islam and Muslims and we are no longer prepared to allow a barbaric group like ISIS to hijack our faith.”

    But increasingly, similar words by present and former U.S. presidents that “Islam is a religion of peace” ring hollow today.

    The reality is quite different.

    It is true that for many Muslims, Islam is a moral compass that guides them in their daily, law-abiding lives.

    But for many others, Islam is intrinsically interwoven with the doctrine of armed jihad and the goal of ultimate Muslim supremacy over non-Muslims.

    I would have hoped to hear more Muslims saying in the wake of these latest incidents that despite the fact sharia law dictates the doctrine of armed jihad, we as Muslims reject it as inapplicable in the modern era of nation states, the United Nations and international law.

    Contrary to the often-repeated mantra that there is nothing in common between Islam and the Islamic State, for many Muslims, there is a link.

    And we Muslims should acknowledge that reality.
     
  11. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    Also, a simple question, which event has caused more Muslims to stage outraged protests around the world on the streets:

    1) The Charlie Hebdo or Kurt Westergaard cartoons
    2) A Muslim murdering 39 unarmed people on a beach in Tunisia
     
  12. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    You are quoting the Toronto Sun which is a neo-conservative anti-Muslim blog. There is no link to the survey or results. This is b.s. man. You are spinning polls into things and outright making stuff up now. use a legit source for information please.

    Stop it with the Islamophobia dude. Seriously.
     
  13. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    It's a newspaper, not a blog.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_Sun

    Here is the link to the actual poll:

    http://aljazeera.net/votes/pages?voteid=5270

    [​IMG]

    And a screenshot with the help of Google Translate:

    [​IMG]
     
    #33 AroundTheWorld, Jun 28, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2015
  14. Deji McGever

    Deji McGever יליד טקסני

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    The former were insulting the prophet while the latter was defending the faith against bikini-clad apostates. You ask that question in bad faith -- as if you are surprised.

    Do you think the Christian fundamentalist misogynists in Texas who support closing down womens' clinics are outraged when a doctor who performs abortions is murdered?
     
  15. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    Are you comparing all Muslims to the Christian fundamentalist misogynists in Texas who support closing down womens' clinics?

    Your comparison is way off.

    Because my question was whether out of the group of all Muslims, more people took to the street in outrage against cartoons or against murders of 39 unarmed people on a beach. I was not asking whether ISIS people would protest the murders on the beach (which would be closer to your comparison).

    Also, no, I am not surprised, but that does not make my question one in bad faith, otherwise every rhetorical question would be "in bad faith".
     
  16. Sweet Lou 4 2

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    Blog vs Newspaper - it's still a rag of junk and you know it.

    That poll question doesn't read like "ISIS" but rather an Islamic state. There is a difference you know. Iran is an Islamic state, but definitely not ISIS.

    81% saying they want an Islamic state in Iraq isn't the same as supporting ISIS at all. Nice try.
     
  17. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    New Yorker claims something is a blog. New Yorker is proven wrong (as always). New Yorker doesn't admit his defeat (as usual).


    So first you complained that there is no link to the actual poll. I did provide the link. Now you are clutching at straws and trying to make it seem like the poll question did not refer to ISIS. On this one, I cannot prove you wrong myself, as I can't read Arabic. As far as I know, you can't either.

    But perhaps someone who reads Arabic can enlighten us on that question.

    Edit: When I enter the part of the Al Jazeera poll that Google translates as "Islamic country" ( الدولة الإسلامية) into Google for a search, all I get is search results for ISIS.

    But overall, what is your point? Are you saying that there are no Muslims who agree with ISIS goals about what a society should look like? There is overwhelming evidence to the contrary. The Pew polls have been posted many times, as have other polls, which you all choose to ignore. Where do you think ISIS recruits their fighters?
     
    #37 AroundTheWorld, Jun 28, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2015
  18. Deji McGever

    Deji McGever יליד טקסני

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    Sorry Jackie. I didn't want to offend the moderate Christians. Having lived in one theocracy, I am a bit alarmed when a vocal group in power are spoiling for one of their own. My point is that even very conservative and politically radically evangelists don't condone murder, but it's not realistic to expect them to be outraged when it happens to someone that does something they think is immoral and blasphemous.
     
  19. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    Yes, but what about the supposedly moderate members of the religion? I don't think any moderate Christian actually supports murders of abortion doctors. I can't imagine that even 0.1 % of Christians support murders of abortion doctors. But apparently, 27 % of French Muslims aged 18-24 have positive views of ISIS, and apparently 81 % of respondents to an Al Jazeera online poll in Arabic.
     
  20. Deji McGever

    Deji McGever יליד טקסני

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    I'd be interested to know how many self-identified Christians in Texas support the current law that is closing down womens' clinics in the guise of "preserving health." Or support the efforts to change public school textbooks to reference Moses as the inspiration for American democracy or The book of Job for the fossil record.

    Considering the governor, lieutenant governor, attorney general and many on the education board share those positions and handily won election, I would guess that the numbers would not be dissimilar.


    Edit: Which is not to refute the popularity of ISIS among young Muslims in Europe or that it isn't repugnant. To me it's the same kind of sad, the same kind of ignorant, and the same kind of misplaced tribal loyalty to the detriment of civil society, even if one is far less likely to behead people. I'd like to think the line at which I have moral reservation stops way before that.
     

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