I think the main conspiracy theory with WTC 7 is the destruction of a bunch of records of secret agencies housed in the building.
yes I've read these reports and much more, didn't want to do a point counter point- notice you didn't link anything about your source of info for the construction- which drawings were you going with. (BTW the sight I linked proposed the tubular Concrete core which I just thought was interesting, that wasn't a site that has studies of original drawings. Again I don't want to get into the point counter point on the structural issues. I am not saying that it was a controlled demo, I am saying that I believe the govt. was complicit in the attacks. I am still sane, and I understand that a controlled demo is incredulous and ridiculous given the scope of the disaster and the probability of investigation. Simply from the risk assessment of discovery I don't think anyone would attempt that large a demo. I really can't see reason to believe that there was complicity in the tower's fall, but my belief that there was in the attack has led me to read more about it than I should have. You have stated your positions very well as usual. Like a judo expert you certainly understand how to use your opponents balance against them. If in time we find out that parts of our govt. were complicit in the attacks, you will be shocked, but I will be also. Because we just don't ever find out those kind of things do we. I always enjoy seeing you here in D&D, just wish this were a religious topic so I could put my heart into it. Wish I could have seen you while you were here in Houston, next time I will try.. BTW- haven't had time to track down Ron Paul yet, is he still running? I am going to have lunch soon with the new coach though and I am pretty stoked about that.
WTC7 had an inconspicuous looking facility on the 6th floor that was in reality where the bodies of the Roswell aliens and the guns used by the other shooters in the JFK assassination were being stored.
Another great point to show the gapping hole in conspiracy theroies. When you have to brainstorm on motives for this kind of stuff, maybe you should put your time to better use me thinks. WTC7 is where Rudy built his expensive emergency management center. Why would Bush want to destroy that? Why would anyone want to destroy WTC7? And would they organize all of 9/11 as one big distraction - the 4 planes, the attack on the pentagon, the 2 towers...Al Qaeda, everything...just to cover up the destruction of WTC 7 Hours after the terrorist attack???? Wow, I just don't think our government is that imaginative. You know what, if our gov't was behind 9/11, I'll actually sleep easier. If our way of life is controlled by people this powerful, enough to pull off this level of conspiracy, then ya know what, all the problems we face must not really matter. This all powerful secret people who did this must also already have the cure for cancer, AIDS, perfect energy for the future, and just waiting for the right time to give it to us. Maybe the conspirators are actually aliens! Yes - that would explain everything.
Rhester; As usual you have disarmed any strident response I might have with your courtesy and humility. I will do the best that I can though to give you something of a response. I apologize for not giving you a link but I am writing from memory and I recall that during construction the contractor had used less concrete. This was from the ASCE report and Nova special that was based on that. This is the only link I can find to that doing a quick search: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/sunder.html That said though I am skeptical of the link that you cite regarding the drawings as they seem very quick to declare later drawings as forgeries when from my own experience it would be impossible to not have a project of the scale and complexity of the WTC without having revisions made during construction. The argument made that drawings and diagrams used are forgeries since they are based on later drawings than the original design would seem to ignore standard construction practice and requires believing in complicity in a conspiracy dating all the way back to the construction of the WTC. I don't deny that there may be complicity in terms of knowing that an attack would take place and not doing anything about it but I have a hard time believing that a group of people seeking power and control would allow an event that they had very little control over to take place. While many neo-cons both in and out of the Admin. might've sought to capitalize on an attack and possibly even looked forward to such an event that's different than being aware that it is on the way and letting it happen. That's just my nature. I agree I would find that very shocking but then again I've found a lot of things that the current Admin. has done to be very shocking. I don't know if you've been in the Hangout recently but I will be in Houston this week and am setting up a Clutchfans get together on Friday at BW3 in the Village at 6PM. I will be in Houston from Thursday afternoon to Sunday Morning and my schedule is still somewhat fluid so if you can't make it then I would certainly enjoy talking to you again in person. Send me an email and we can see if our schedules work out.
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Yes, this. Incidentally, I'm shocked that 38 people voted that this was a conspiracy. And I am a disaffected liberal who is willing to believe some very bad things about the current administration.
I'm shocked Marwanal-Al-Shehhi (he was the alleged pilot of flight 175) he flunked out of both Huffman Aviation school in Florida and Jones Aviation school in Sarasota, his last instructor said quote "he was incompetent, nice guy but in a plane, dumb and dumber" Hani Hanjour the pilot of flight 77 was even worse. He tried to rent a plane at the Maryland airport and was denied, here is what the instructor said- Marcel Bernard, the chief flight instructor at the airport, said the man named Hani Hanjour went into the air in a Cessna 172 with instructors from the airport three times beginning the second week of August (01) and had hoped to rent a plane from the airport. According to published reports, law enforcement sources say Hanjour, in his mid-twenties, is suspected of crashing the American Airlines Flight 77 into the Pentagon. ... Hanjour had his pilot's license (actually it was issued in '99 but suspended), said Bernard, but needed what is called a 'check-out' done by the airport to gauge a pilot's skills before he or she is able to rent a plane at Freeway Airport which runs parallel to Route 50. Instructors at the school told Bernard that after three times in the air, they still felt he was unable to fly solo and that Hanjour seemed disappointed ... Hanjour was the pilot who took Flight 77 into a 270 degree severe bank at full speed then dropped below radar level and hit the Pentagon, I have read several testimonies that he pulled off a manuver in a 757 that only a seasoned fighter jet pilot could do. Those guys should have bought lottery tickets instead of flying suicide missions.
What are you now suggesting? It was a disgruntled seasoned jet fighter who pulled off this suicide mission?
This is the one 'conspiracy' that has to be true -- the men who piloted those planes were experienced and highly trained in their homeland or elsewhere. You cannot fly a Cessna then jump into a jumbo jet -- fly and navigate it with such precision without extensive training.
I'm not suggesting anything, I am egging on this thread out of boredom. I don't want to know who was flying the planes.
buliding 7 tenants included - # Internal Revenue Service (IRS) # Department of Defense (DOD) # Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) # Office of Emergency Management (OEM) # US Secret Service # Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC)
in operation northwoods, the joint chiefs discussed hijacking planes and flying them by remote control - and that was in the 60's.
So attacking the two towers was just misdirection? How do you unify destruction of the two towers and WTC7 into a coherent goal? And even though these people were tennants of this building, what is the point of destroying the buildings? For instance, I'm positive that the IRS would have all the records destroyed in WTC7 duplicated elsewhere on computers.
Why would our gov't want to destroy the CIA, the IRS, and all these other agencies we associate with big brother??? Ohhhh - it's a D.C. vs. NYC thing??? NYC secret gov't attacked washington, and Washington's secret gov't attacked NY!!!! I get it now, it was like a Redskins - Giants game.
OK people, I said to myself I would let this poll run for a week. My whole point to this was to see what most people thought around here about this topic, and to get some stats together. We could go on for years arguing facts that nobody really knows for sure. Thats NOT the point. Now that it has run its course lets look at the numbers. For the sake of arguement, we will go ahead and put the yes and the undecided catagories together and call it the 'people who question 911' catagory. Just the fact that they are undecided pretty much says they don't trust what the media told us really happened on 911. Total votes- 154 yes votes - 40 25.97% no votes - 94 61.04% undecided - 20 12.99% As I stated before we will combine the yes and undecided catagory together so we have: no- 61.04% PWQ911 - 38.96% OK now, to all of the 'no' catagory people, even if you think we are all "loons", doesn't this number shock the hell out of you? Almost 40%!!!!! Do you think that all 60 of your fellow clutchfans are crazy? Now I know we all have our opinions, but don't you think if 60 out of every 159 people (i'm not saying these stats are completely accurate, but we could be talking about millions of Americans) thought this way, shouldn't there be a MAJOR investigation into this matter. Does the media tell you that this many Americans believe this way? NO AND HELL NO...now why is that? Do our opinions not matter anymore? Are we still not Americans? You can sit here all day and call us 'loons', 'conspiracy theorists', 'tinfoil hat wearing' whatever.....point is that there are a lot of people out there that are not very convinced that the story the media told us is real, that it just doesn't add up. The fact that there are so many questions about this should be reason enough to begin a major investigation. If that investigation proves otherwise, then I will take my tinfoil hat wearin ass, and dine on a bird.
Nope, in fact I kind of suspected it would be higher. I have found in any group of average Americans, about half of them would be idiots. Just look at the number of people who vote for Democrats in each election. You seem to be under the impression that no one has studied 9/11. That is simply not the case. I believe it was mentioned in this very thread (in one of the videos?) that the collapse of the twin towers is the most studied engineering failure in the world.
typical republican....ridicule those with different views. So everybody with a different opinion than your own is an idiot....mmmm....ok...if you say so
