http://www.canoe.ca/TorontoSports/ts.ts-12-28-0090.html Saturday, December 28, 2002 Hello cleveland? Rumour suggests Carter could be dealt for Miles, Ilgauskas By FRANK ZICARELLI, Toronto Sun OAKLAND -- Vince Carter's name is being linked with a trade rumour involving Darius Miles and Zydrunas Ilgauskas of the Cleveland Cavaliers. It is not known how serious the Raptors are in trading Carter, but an uneasiness exists between Vinsanity and the franchise. According to various sources, Carter, who missed his 10th consecutive game last night because of a knee injury, isn't happy in Toronto and would not object to a move. The Raptors are not necessarily enthralled with Carter either. While no one would dare go public, players and members of the team's basketball staff believe Carter has not worked hard enough during his rehab and has not practised hard when he was healthy. Around the NBA, Carter has earned a reputation for being soft and playing with no heart. The Raptors also have been criticized for coddling Carter. Carter did not accompany the Raptors, who have dropped four in a row to fall to 8-20 heading into last night's game against the Golden State Warriors, on their five-game trip. He has appeared in only 10 games this season. Made playoffs without him The Raptors regrouped from a horrific 13-game losing streak last season and qualified for the post-season without Carter. At first glance, a Carter for Ilgauskas and Miles swap makes sense. The Cavs basically have given up on the year and could use a box-office attraction such as Carter to fill the many empty seats at the Gund Arena. Coincidentally, Carter is represented by IMG, which is based in Cleveland. While both Ilgauskas and Miles have battled injuries, each brings a dimension the Raptors sorely lack. Ilgauskas is a legitimate centre and when his game is on there aren't many centres better in the Eastern Conference. Miles is an emerging star who is young and extremely athletic
RealGM Note: Carter’s BYC status would make this particular trade impossible and any trade involving Carter very difficult to complete.
Even if Carter is an injury waiting to happen, surely the Raptors could get more for him than another injury waiting to happen + an overrated young player that can dunk. This is a bad trade for the Raptors, if they want to dump Vinsanity, they should dump him for draft picks and/or guys with superstar potential. I'm sure some of you think Miles has superstar potential, but he hasn't shown much so far in his career.
It would be great for Tornoto IMO. Carter is dramatically overated. Looks unlikely though. Grunwald: Carter is 'untradeable' The Raptors' GM says Vince Carter isn't on his way to Cleveland. (posted Dec. 28, 1:30PM EST) Toronto Raptors general manager Glen Grunwald says there's no truth to a rumour that Vince Carter could be traded to the Cleveland Cavaliers. Related: Raps' losing streak hits five in loss to Warriors Carter, who missed Toronto's past ten games because of a lingering knee injury, is "untradeable," Grunwald said. A Toronto Sun report on Saturday suggested that the Raptors might trade Carter to the Cavs for centre Zydrunas Ilgauskas and forward Darius Miles. The Cavs, with a record of 6-25, are the only team in the Eastern Conference with a worse record than the Raptors, who are 8-21 and have lost five consecutive games. Toronto scraped into the playoffs last year after Carter left the team for season-ending knee surgery. He has played only 10 games this season, and has twice been sidelined with a recurrence of jumper's knee. Ilgauskas has also been affected by injury. He has missed large chunks of time over the past few seasons because of sore feet. Toronto has been ravaged by injuries this season. Neither Carter nor Antonio Davis accompanied the team on its current West Coast road trip. A back injury forced Hakeem Olajuwon into retirement and forward Lamond Murray, acquired from the Cavs in the pre-season, has yet to play after undergoing surgery on his foot.
Here's my point of view on the Carter trade (I live in Cleveland) The Cavs really need someone to help us win fans back. I went to a Cavs vs. Rockets game last year and there were so many empty seats that they let us move from our original seats (4 rows from the very back of the arena) to lower deck seats. It's really sad that the team hasn't been on National TV since 1998, and even that was only for the playoffs. So I want the Raptors to trade Carter to Cleveland. We would actually appreciate him here.
Hey...that's sad. So you don't care about Ricky Davis? He's a pretty good player. Dajuan Wagner and Ricky Davis are good together. But they don't have anyone to help. How come the Cleveland Cavaliers lost Andre Miller? Don't the Cavs have a better attendance than the Rockets? Compaq Center's capacity is too small. You would appreciate Carter if he wasn't injured. If you all actually got him, what if he was injured the whole season? Lebron James, Dajuan Wagner, and Vince Carter. Not bad.
And you think the players wouldn't wine about not getting the ball enough? Also, isn't LeBron James a small forward?
Lebron James is a shooting guard/small forward. Well...if these three were managed by a good coach, then they would succeed. Shaq wants the ball, so does Kobe. They still succeed. Mike Bibby, Peja Stojakovic, and Chris Webber get along quite well. They are all great players. If this actually occurred, then Cleveland would be a good team. They would get killed by teams with big guys, though. It won't happen.
It's not official yet, but Jeff Hagadorn on the Rockets postgame was saying there is "big news" in the NBA. The following postgame show said that "Sources out of Toronto are saying that VC will be traded for Ilgauskas and Miles." I can't clarify any moew, and it probably won't be in the news or online until tomorrow.
Oh. My. God. I doubt this will be made official, but it is still scary. This trade makes absolutely no sense for Toronto. I don't have much time to elaborate, but Darius Miles, from what I've seen, is not a franchise player. He has been a disappointment for the Cavs because Lucas plays him at the point. His a good (I'd say all-star caliber) player, but his skills are still too raw for him to be playing anywhere but the forward slots. He can face anyone with his explosiveness, but doesn't have the build to complement his finesse game. Nor does he have the shooting skills to take advantage of smaller matchups; his outside shots seem limited to spot-up jumpers, which he hits a lot of. He ain't no Vince Carter. I know there's Zydrunas, but I haven't seen a lot of him and when I have he is never the team's first option, but that's by design. At 7'3" (having the mobility of a 6'10" player it seems) when he hangs in the lane a lot of his points come from accidental offense/putbacks. As for Carter... he'll convince you that he's the best player in the league for stretches and then disappear (I know this is a generalization.) He definitely has the offensive tools (first step and finishing skills are the best among them.) His defense has been questioned, but I can guarantee that he plays better defense than anyone on the Cavs, a team that can be broken down with a high-school motion offense. But the question isn't skill, it's desire. With that he'll overcome his injuries. Look at Grant Hill this season, he hasn't been eating up his team's possessions and is using his ball-handling skills to create high-percentage shots for himself. In my opinion, even without the explosiveness, he's all the player he was. Compare that with Penny Hardaway, his image outgrew his game and he has had to accept the Walt Williams role on (until recently) a bad team. For a former all-NBA first team player, that really sucks.
Toronto, Toronto, Toronto! What's wrong with them? Z's a great center when he's healthy, but he won't be by the end of the season. I guarantee you all that. So basically the trade is Carter for Miles, and even though Miles is my second favorite player (behind Stevie Franchise) he's not worth giving up even an injured Vince Carter. Plus Miles just got back from missing like, 10 games with an injury! So every player in this could-be trade is injured!
This trade made no sense for both parties IMO. If Cleveland want to attract fans, they better win more games or maybe lose more games and get Lebron James next year. If Toronto feel that Vince is too injury prone, why getting an equally injured prone Ilgauskas?
Would such a trade even be possible with Vince's 1st-year BYC? It would have to be a pretty big trade, maybe involving a third team. And Cleveland would have to sit Vince for awhile to help make the #1 pick they would send (somewhere along #1-4 in the draft) worth Toronto's while.
Even though he's been in the league a couple years now, Darius Miles is what 21? He has the right to be raw at this point in his career.
