View of the Middle East from an American that lived in Saudi Arabia for 15 years.....

Yes, but where were the troops when millions were slaughtered in the Civil War in Rwanda back in 1996? Where were the troops when the Russian armies absolutely leveled Grozny?

 

This is laughable. So you are saying the invasion of Iraq was driven by a desire to not regulate fuel emissions. This is ludicrous.

Oil and its byproducts do much more than fuel giant SUV's. Oil is central to the world economy as an energy source across all industries. A more stable Middle East helps bring lower oil prices and a higher standard of living for everyone who participates in the world economy. This is not some veiled conspiracy to save soccer moms $0.50 on the gallon when they fill up their Suburban.

 

At least you admit that oil is a part of this war.

 

As a fiscal conservative I agree that oil is vital to our globalized economy. However, that point is so obvious, that I didn't feel that it needs to be mentioned. On that merit alone, Bush could have justified going into Iraq and liberating the hell out of it. But, as far as big corporations are concerned, the big winners will be the likes of Exxon/Mobil, Shell, BP/Amoco, Chevron, etc. In turn the big PC manufacturers can sell more small business desktops, and enterprise systems and software.

By the way, I have no problem with fueling large SUV's, as I still plan on buying a Tahoe before year's end. I just didn't appreciate being fed the garbage about WMDs, when our biggest threat, North Korea is developing a nuclear program far more threatening than anything Iraq can muster up.

 

A great point, Banqui. I've wondered why even people who were pro-war haven't been upset because of the manipulation of facts, and the propoganda leading up to the war. If I was for the war, but still felt lied to, I would be angry. Why not level with people? And if the real reasons for a war don't gain support, then live with it. That seems like the democratic thing to do.

 

TJ,

What I see is that oil is a commodity, similar to Coffee Beans, OJ and Pork Bellies. It is vital to our economy and our way of living.

My question is that as a first world market changing more towards a Service oriented marketplace we will become more dependant on foreign commodities and foreign industrial supply.

Even Libya and Iran two countries that we banned their international sale of Oil would sell it to the US in a heartbeat because greed crosses all animosities and boundries. An example is that Marc Rich, an Israeli, bought 80 million barrels of oil from Iran at a fraction of the market price circumventing the embargo. They gladly sold it to him though he was an Israeli and paid much less than the market value. They have a commodity that they wish to sell and we wish to buy it. I don't understand why we have to take a country over to establish this.

We buy coffee beans from Colombia yet don't give a damn about the corruption and wrongs there. I think a reason why we have such an interest there is that we have been pulled in with the Israeli's into their Israeli-Arab conflict, in which I feel both parties are fools. If they're insane and wish to keep killing each other what they hell does that little desert and those people have to do with us?? We should simply buy and sell products and services with a smile to both sides and then be seen in a good light.

You should know that greed cleanses all political/social/religious tensions if it goes their way. In Qatar they have the religious groups paid salaries by the government, and so now they have less fundamentalism as 'ordained' by their chief religious figures and little to no violence or anti-government rhetoric.

If Saddam Hussein was back in power TODAY after both of his sons were killed, he would sell us Oil for less than the market value and would sell it to anyone in the world that wanted it.

If we wish to control global commodity sources then we should get ready to take over half the world.

 

What's your point? My point was that you can't explain US presence in the Middle East solely because of Israel. I don't see what your is.

 

Obviously, the US would have more international credibility as a "police" state if it doesn't pick and choose where it intervenes based on national interests. But that's a whole different tangent altogether.

 

Read My Last Post Mr. Clutch.

 

In the case of Libya, the only reason that the trade embargo still exists is that the US refuses to lift them until Libya admits responsibility for the Pan-Am hijacking over Ireland back in the 80s. It's a stupid arguement, in which both sides, on principle, have refused to negotiate.

 

I don't think the US should be a police state. Certain interventions for human rights violations I am ok with, I think it would have been good to go into Rwanda. But the US can't be everywhere, there are limits. It makes perfect sense to take care of situations that concern our security first and foremost.

 

Actually we are very involved in Columbia, it just doesn't make the papers much. We do have special forces there fighting the pseudo-Marxist crime organizatons.

But anyways, I understand your point. But I am not sure your Qatar example applies everywhere. Isn't Saudia Arabia very affluent, yet 15 of the hijackers were born there? Economic prosperity does breed stability, but there is repressive regimes and extremist ideologies also seem to play a big factor.

 

I think OBL and Al-Queda made their demands pretty straight forward. The average Saudi Arabian despises their government. They want freedom and to live without oppression for all the reasons and more that Deuce Rings stated. Most Saudi's see the American troops there not to protect them against Saddam, but to protect the government against its own people and to stabilize the region for Israel.

I think its a blessing that the US gets to leave Saudi and go to Iraq and Qatar though. That place truly is a timb bomb waiting to explode.

Though we have slight military support it is nothing to the level that we have in the middle east or the funds going to Israel and any dictator that makes peace with them.