U.S. ambassador, 3 American diplomats killed by protesters in Libya

This is absolutely false.

They are far, far more civilized in general in most countries. Weak attempt to downplay storming an embassy and murdering the ambassador and several other people. Don't act like this is "normal and inevitable".

Typical Mathloom verbose finger-pointing to the US. Let's recap what happened: Some random idiot uploaded some random Youtube video. Islamists are "outraged", go and storm embassies and murder people. Mathloom's asinine comment: "Don't act like the role of the US in this thing is irrelevant".

Apparently not, if storming embassies is becoming the norm in your part of the world.

Ridiculous attempt to justify Islamist violence. Just stop. You are crazy.

Same "imperialism, just a reaction, violence is normal, you did it too, blablablablablabla" bullcrap.

Stop posting. Ok? Great.

 

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-08-14/news/33204040_1_neo-nazi-group-flash-mobs-immortals

http://www.spiegel.de/international...ce-warn-of-more-neo-nazi-terror-a-855008.html

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/german-military-knew-suspects-ties-17211302

If you truly believe that people should look at their own countries first, and "police their own" as you so commonly express - then perhaps you should be telling yourself to stop posting.

Nevermind that I am universally (in every single case, regardless of race/religion/geography/nationality) anti-violence and anti-war, while you are selectively anti-violence and anti-war, and we have seen what your selection process looks like.

 

I had never heard of this, but apparently, it does exist. Strange that I have not picked it up in German media. Scary, these idiots. I hope the authorities go after them with full force.

Regardless, this has absolutely nothing to do with Islamists murdering the US ambassador to Libya and rioting mobs storming embassies across the Arab world. The main difference is that these attention-whoring neo-nazi idiots have absolutely no support in the general population - on the contrary, 99 % of people will be absolutely disgusted by them.

The violent outrage in the Arab world, however, is met with outspoken or tacit approval by large factions of the population and spans across many countries. This is what makes this a much bigger issue.

Your diversion strategy of pointing fingers at others is well-known. You are not fooling anyone.

The huge difference between you and me is that I have absolutely no sympathy at all for these neo-nazi idiots - I don't see any point they have, nothing. They are just idiots and I hope they rot in jail. In fact, I think that our courts are far too lenient with them.

You, on the other hand, weasel around trying to relativize what these Islamists do, shift blame to the USA and basically it is clear that you think they have a valid reason to be mad. You may, to save face, say that they went too far with their violence, but it is clear that you think that their anger is justified at its core. And with that, sadly, you are far from alone in your part of the world.

Therefore, this is in no way comparable.

 

You see how you can keep harrassing someone with selective statistics and stories?

WHY ARE YOU NOT CONDEMNING THIS MORE HARSHLY?? lol

FYI I believe that most Germans are good people. For me, any and every large group that is not purpose-built consists of mostly good people.

I'm glad you see that it is irrelevant to Libya and Egypt. So let's both keep on topic shall we? There are people everywhere who exceed the rational limits of ideologies to step into violence. There is nothing inherently violent about German nationalism, but it has been abused to the fullest despite that.

In Libya, the embassy employees were killed/injured by a pre-planned terrorist attack. These are enemies of the embassy and enemies of Libyans, otherwise they would participate in the democratic process in Libya rather than go rogue.

Almost ALL LARGE PROTESTS end up with a small amount of violence. Anything else is an exception and not the rule. For this reason, large non-violent protests are routinely honored for the number of days which they were able to maintain non-violence. It is a matter of fact that large groups are easily strayed towards violence. For this reason, authorities monitor and supervise large protests, even of the most peaceful nature, even in the most free countries.

If you are out there protesting genetcally modified foods, then violence is less likely than if you are protesting politics. This is fact.

This does NOT.. I repeat.. does NOT excuse the violent people from their actions. This is merely an assessment of the predictability of the violence, their motivations and their tools. Like I have repeated countless times, the criminals should go to jail. If you are sincerely interested in the topic, then please do not ignore this statement and act like I am belittling the criminals or belittling the crimes.

Egyptians and Middle Easterners are not happy with the United States, and this is a legitimate grievance dating back decades. Why you choose to ignore this despite strong evidence is beyond me. I'm sure you disagree. I'm sure George bush disagrees with them. Dick Cheney. I'm sure OBL agreed with them. I'm sure wahhabists agree with them. That does not mean everyone on the "for" side is homogenous, and same goes for the "against" side. There are legitimate political grievances against the United States from MOST of the civilian non-extrmist population of the Middle East. There are also grievances from extremists, and there is also a minority with no grievances at all - this tends to be the rich people.

Egypt is in turmoil. The movie was stupid and legal. The general reaction was stupid and legal. The violent reactions were criminal and illegal. The deaths were tragic consequences of crimes committed by terrorists. In Egypt, sympathy is in short supply. They have their own problems, all Egyptians have had someone close die of unnecessary circumstances. Their reaction has been less sympathetic than what you would expect of a group that lives in peace, prosperity, safety, security and self-determintion. Egypians only have parts of some of those things. They are down. This is not the time to kick them. This is not the time to further step on them by assuming that this president represents them.

As long as they prosecute the criminals, I find it silly to hold the moderate protesting Egyptians accountable in any shape or form. It's their right to surround the embassy all day, all night as long as they don't escalate into violence. I agree with them that their grievances are legitimate towards the US. I don't agree with anyone who condones shifting those grievances to violence.

 

Ahh crap... now the protests started in Sudan.... Will stay indoors until this blows over.

 

It's only been 2000 years, probably won't last past when your milk runs out.

 

Pointing out that the maker of the film is hateful and also a criminal isn't excusing or apologizing for the violence of the protesters. That is part of free speech that we are also free to criticize the speech of others.

As for your storyline it isn't accurate and doesn't match the facts as we are learning.

1. True.
2. The link that IzakDavid posted earlier claiming Stevens was raped it self says that the story isn't verified. Further Stevens being sodomized doesn't fit the injuries reported by the doctor who treated him. As far as hundreds or thousands dragging him and other Americans into the street that doesn't appear to be the case either as cause of death appears to be smoke inhalation from a fire in the embassy annex where they were holding out. Further Libyans did take him to a Bengazi hospital where he died. It doesn't make sense that a mob would be dragging Stevens, while alive, around to parade him like a trophy only to then rush him to a hospital. The evidence so far shows that during the protests several (but small compared to the size of the protest) heavily armed men opened fire on the embassy driving the ambassador and others into the annex. There they along with the Libyan guards engaged in a firefight with the attackers but were outgunned. RPG's striking the annex set it on fire. Stevens is injured in the fire. Some Libyans get him out of annex to the hospital where he dies of his injuries.
3.Carl Herrera does but that isn't directly relevant to the attack.

The evidence is pointing to the murderers being an Al Qaeda related group who used the protests as an opportunity to launch an attack on a US embassy for reasons other than the movie. Anyway as noted above criticizing the filmmaker isn't excusing the violence of the protest. This isn't an absolute where if you criticize the filmmakers mean you absolve the protesters. BOTH ARE HATEFUL.

So then if you excuse the filmmaker does that mean that you actually agree with the filmmaker? Under your reasoning that if you criticize one side means you agree with the other that would be the case.

 

Yet only one group committed murder. I still haven't heard one good reason why some one would post articles information about the author of the video. Why are reporters even looking into him? As previously stated it serves no purpose other then to justify the murders actions.

excuse the filmmaker of what? Never seen his movie nor do I care about his opinions.

That's not my reasoning at all. Never once did I say Carl agreed with the murderers. I said he was giving them what they want and therefore being a tool. In other words, it's incredibly stupid and harmful to go after the filmmaker after multiple people were murdered by others expressing the same view. You are just encouraging these psychos to do it again since they are getting what they want.

 

Yeah, I don't get it either. I can go to the CNN comment section on any given day and find hundreds of anti-religious, anti-Muslim crap posted by random American citizens.

 

I can tell you for a fact I have been to several large protests that did not break out in violence. Even the ones where I have been the violence was very small, breaking a few windows. In many of the anti-war protests I have seen protesters police themselves. While yes there are violent people out there looking to take advantage of protests large protests do not inevitably lead to violence.

Yes I can agree that US history towards Egypt and the Middle East hasn't been good but this does seem like more wallowing in victimhood that often seems to mark the rhetoric in the Middle East.

Again this is more wallowing in victimhood. While the US has exerted quite a bit of influence onto Egypt and funded an authoritarian Mubarak regime but the US has never occupied Egypt and only in a paranoid nationalist view has Egypt been the imperial prisoner of the US. As the Arab Spring shows that Egyptians do have the ability to change the regime. Further under Nasser Egypt did show that it was capable of standing up to US interest. Like it or not Mubarak is an Egyptian who came to power through the system and legacy of the Arab nationalism championed by Nasser. While the US certainly liked him and gave him a lot of aid he was the creation of the Egyptian system not imposed through regime change like the Shah in Iran.

The Egyptians have a great opportunity to build their society but wallowing in victimhood at the hands of the US isn't going to lead to a better Egypt.

 

You are engaging in absolutist thinking and further misunderstand the concept of free speech. Calling out something for being hateful isn't justifying those who overreact to it. I mean that would be like saying if I criticize the KKK means that I justify the Black Panthers. That isn't the case at all and in a society with free speech hateful offensive speech is countered by other speech.

That is your reasoning though. If Carl criticizes the filmmaker then he is somehow agreeing and thus justifying the actions of the violent protesters. That only makes sense if you take an absolutist view.
What you are arguing for is actually very dangerous in regard to free speech. As much as you read the violence of the protesters as a threat to free speech you are at the same saying that the exercise of free speech to criticize the filmmakers should be muzzled because it might encourage violence.

 

free speech refers to legal action. I call for no legal action against Carl (or anyone who posts their opinion). I am informing him of the stupidity of his posts. Similarly, you are trying to inform me of the error of my posts.

I am also sure Carl will be calling out every racist piece of art ever.... Crappy racist videos come out every day. Why is Carl/reporters going after the author of this one?

Never said 'agreeing' or any synonym. I would/did say 'encouraging' and 'helping', which he and the authors of the articles he's posting are. I will ask it for a third time; What possible purpose could it serve to dig up dirt on the author of the film other then to justify the murders? It was a meaningless youtube video that nobody saw until the murders brought it up and now they are getting their way because Carl is unknowingly helping them. Stop being a puppet for these monsters Carl.

 

You are saying he shouldn't be making those statements. You aren't calling for legal action but you are calling for him to muzzle his speech because it might be harmful. That is your right too but that is the same as those who are saying that people shouldn't be making movies like this because it might set off angry Muslims.

That makes no sense at all. How is Carl's post 'encouraging' ,'helping', 'justifying' or he is a 'tool' of the protesters if you don't think he is agreeing with them?

As far as purpose I and others have stated it already. This movie is hateful and Carl is calling it out for being that.

Again you seem to be locked into this absolutist view that if someone criticizes the target of what some crazy extremist also criticize they are the puppet of those extremist. That would be like saying that when you criticize increased government regulation you are justifying the actions of Timothy McVeigh.

 

He's unknowingly helping them. Carl is doing exactly what those murderers hoped he would do. Demonizing the author of the video. If they are getting what they want then he is encouraging them. Doesn't mean he agrees with them.

You should start a thread where you go after the authors of all hateful youtube videos.... Cmon, you are being totally dishonest.

What if right after the McVeigh bombing, in the Tim McVeigh bombing thread, I posted tons of articles about why government regulation is bad? How appropriate would that be? Would you assume I was trying to justify McVeigh's actions?

 

Reporters are going after after the author because it's en vogue to ignore free-speech when it comes to anti Islam if anything is deemed blasphemy. Yet trash Mormons, Christians, Jews and it's all good. Western media is allowing itself to be intimidated by the violent responses.

 

Evacuate our embassies, advertise a showing of this movie for free at the newly emptied embassies. Lock on target.. release JDAM's.. a crowd of future #2 Al Quaida leaders gone in an instant. Problem solved. Thats about as logical as rioting about a movie that has nothing to do with the US so I'm cool with it. O/T but someone really needs to take out Zawahiri stat.

Spoiler

 

We have not seen this sort of foreign affairs buffoonery - poor Romney is in so far over his head he is making Palin look like diplomatic envoy material.

 

You libtards are amusing.

 

The film is clearly hate speech. It's intention is to make people more anti-Islamic.

Hate on both sides needs to stop. It is boiling over and creating problems that will only grow deeper. If you don't think hate speech is a type of violence, than you don't know much about hate.

While no violence is ever justified, so say that these film makers are innocent and unaware of the consequences is just stupid. Of course they knew what they are doing and when you translate the film to Arabic you are looking to provoke this type of reaction.

The U.S. need to get tougher with middle east gov't about these types of protests getting violent. And The U.S. needs to get tougher with condemning hate speech and making sure the world understands that the people producing this garbage are morally corrupt people.

This stuff should not be allowed on YouTube and google screwed up there since hate speech is against their TOS.

Furthermore, we now realize how dangerous the ATW's of the world are. These crazies will only drive greater tension and promote further strife. What we need are people who can help build bridges and opportunities to help elevated the middle east out of poverty and into modern global society. Not fools demonizing them constantly.