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TSN: New stats make defenders like Everett stars

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by xcrunner51, Aug 30, 2006.

  1. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    really, did they have a better lineup in 01 than 04?


    04's team had better hitting and pitching.
     
  2. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Yea... the team in 01 did.

    Check out the year Berkman had... check out the year Alou had (both were in the top 3 in the NL for batting). Bagwell still was an all-star calibur producer. Biggio was still a top offensive 2B. That's also taking into account the "down" year for Hidalgo (which was still better than most average outfielders).

    04's team definitely had better pitching... from top to bottom. They had solid production from Kent, better than average production from Bagwell, good production from Berkman, good production from Beltran, and average production from Biggio... they had the potential to be a better offensive team, but they really weren't.

    Also, 05's team had better pitching than 04's team, and it did better than any of the previous Astros teams.

    Pitching and defense wins championships.... worrying about the lineup is a waste of time.
     
  3. SamCassell

    SamCassell Contributing Member

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    An untrue statement if I ever heard one. Most "absolute" statements are. Pitching is king in baseball in the playoffs for sure, but offense is still 50% of the game. If you don't score any runs, you don't win. This year if th Astros fail to make the playoffs, it will be because the lineup wasn't good enough to compete in a down year, even though we've got a championship-caliber pitching staff. If we had another good offensive player like an 04 Bagwell or Kent or Beltran, this would be a definite playoff team.
     
  4. JunkyardDwg

    JunkyardDwg Contributing Member

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    That statement isn't exactly true either. The offense has only been one of this team's problems this season. We might have a championship caliber pitching staff in the form of Oswalt, Pettite and Clemens, but don't forget Clemens came on board halfway through and Pettite struggled through much of the 1st half. Backe has been largely non-existant and is now done (so forget about his clutch pitching in the post-season should we make it) and now we have to rely on a rookie arm and Wandy. Our bullpen has been pretty inconsistant all year as Lidge has lost the closer's rule, not once but twice, Qualls has had repeat performances of game winning slams and home runs. The 7th, 8th and 9th are no longer guaranteed 1-2-3 innings. The team has had defensive lapses on the field and Ausmus can't hold runners anymore. In fact, if you take the games that the offensive did score enough runs to win, but pitching or bad defense contributed to a loss (mainly pitching) this team would be leading the wild card right now. You argue absolute statements are largely untrue but then you make one yourself with the lack of offensive being the culprit for this year's team.

    The '05 and '06 teams are perfect examples of why defense does actually win championships...moreso than relying on strictly offense (Reds anyone)
     
  5. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    I think my "absolute" statemtent still holds more water than yours. ;)

    Offense is important... I don't advocate ignoring it completely, but the sad truth is that the offense has been BETTER this year than last year. With this personnel, this team is still underacheving mainly because of the bullpen issues, and the inconsistent starting pitching (only recently stabalized... but has suffered all year long from the constant Buchholz/Nieve/Wandy/Sampson/Backe/Hirsh shuffling).

    Also, had Morgan Ensberg or Jason Lane performed anywhere CLOSE to last season's standards, the lineup would be significantly more dangerous... would you still recommend adding another bat then? Even though that would essentially be the same lineup as last year? Its not so simple.
     
  6. AggieRocketFan96

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    You know what? You have convinced me. Everett is the reason the Astros have had any success the past few years. Thank God we have him. Get rid of everybody else but don't let everett go!


     
  7. SamCassell

    SamCassell Contributing Member

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    You know what, you've got an excellent point on the offense. It WAS worse last season, we were 11th in the NL in runs last year and 10th so far this season. Our pitching IS worse this year, 4th compared to 2nd last season. Still, it's hard to point to a top-4 pitching staff and call that the weakness, no? Just about every team has problems with their 4th / 5th starters. If Lane or Ensberg were performing up to expectations, that would give us another productive bat and alleviate the need on that front.

    Honestly, the Astros might lead the wild card if any one of these 5 players produced at the level they did last season: Ensberg, Lane, Pettite, Lidge, Qualls.
     
  8. msn

    msn Member

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    Man, that is what's beautiful about baseball. You can almost never point to one thing. There are so many variables, and it's all so wonderfully human. This season still sucks, though.
     

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