Trump opposes efforts to remove Confederate commanders' names from military bases

how about after mild military bureaucrats who had desk jobs?

 

Tell that to fans of the Detroit Lions..

 

Forty McFortface?

 

How much would you bet? Whatever the amount, you can contribute to charity of your choice, as it wasn't even an argument, much less something I was 'proud' of. Pretty much every time someone tries to say what I'm thinking or feeling, they're wrong, but that's understandable, as they know absolutely nothing about me, and therefore have no basis for saying what I think or feel.

FWIW, check the first few posts in the thread...that's what I read when I posted that. But, yes, this thread does seem to have moved beyond that, and is much more of a discussion, which is good. Still no listing of the actual names in question, though...which you'd think would be the basis of any substantial conversation, although I would agree that many of the sentiments expressed here so far would apply regardless.

 

Groan.

 

That’s the only Confederate flag that matters

 

lol, these people are so unbelievably dumb

racists live a life of ignorance, but think they’re smart

no surprise that the McMichaels had a Confederate flag sticker on their truck and were also dumb as sh*t...Roddy and the McMichaels not only recorded their crime, but leaked it actually thinking that it would help them...they also gave statements in their police report that contradicts a legal citizens arrest



typical incredibly stupid mouthbreathers who love the Confederate flag

 

i would say that they are dumber than a bag of rocks but i don't want to insult the rocks.

 

lol...

 

probably was @bigtexxx and @Senator

 

Dude with the cane was trying to get out of the picture but just couldn't move fast enough...

 

The Confederate flag thing reminds me of the Roman Empire allowing pagans to keep some of their gods, idols, holidays, etc. Forcing them to let go of everything would have required a near genocide so they let them keep things like their flag and they let them name buildings, streets, cities, etc. The Spanish did the same in Latin America. The pagans, southerners, and indigenous people of Latin America wouldn't have accepted their conquerors if they didn't.

I understand the slippery slope argument in regards to erasing this part of history due to the racism of the confederacy. Any argument based on racism would extend all the way back to George Washington and most of the rest of the founding fathers. That argument goes away if you use treason as the reason why you want to get rid of statues and rename things.

 

Lincoln didn't want retribution on the South and many others in Union military felt that way. There is a story after the surrender of Lee Gen. Chamberlain of Maine who was a hero at Gettysburg ordering his troops to stand at attention and his military band to play Dixie as Lee's Army marched away.

One of the fears was that the Confederates would carry out a guerrilla war for decades after and bleed the Union forces. After Lincoln's death others who were more interested in rapid change pushed Reconstruction which many Southerners saw as humiliating and the Klan was born out of that. The end of Reconstruction let the South settle back into racial segregation that kept black southerners oppressed for another hundred years. The current fetish of the Stars and Bars (which actually wasn't the official CSA flag just the battle flag) really comes out of the Civil Rights movement beginning in the 50's when Southern states felt threatened again. Most of the Confederate statues were erected either just following Reconstruction or in the 50's and 60's. In both cases as an act of defiance towards the Federal government.

 

There is a difference between Confederate leader statues and statues of Washington. Washington is praised for things outside his relationship with slaves. He was the first president of the country we reside in.

With Confederate statutes, they are praised for their desire to fought for an entity that existed only to prolong the institution of slavery. It's what they are known for.

Also, many of these Confederate statutes were errected well after the civil war during the Civil Rights movement as a protest by segregationists.

 

I think it's a mistake to make racism so much of a focus here. You believe you are making a reasonable argument that Washington was more than just a racist. The problem is the people who care to avenge racism will go after ALL racists. Not just southerners. There is no satiating them.

 

So to avoid slippery slopes let's just go by this criteria

1. Is the statue of a person who is famous FOR his racist actions such as slave trading or fighting to keep slavery?

2. Was the statue specifically errected as a protest against the civil rights movement.

These are very obvious reasons to remove a statue. A statue is a high honor of praise. Having a base named after you is a high honor of praise. If your are praised for joining a rebellion who rebelled because they feared their slave labor was about to go away, then you don't deserve praise. You may deserve a personal resting ground for family but not a public monument for praise.

You can turn anything into a slippery slope argument.

 

Taking down statues doesn’t erase history. It’s an insulting argument frankly. Hitler and his Nazis are the most infamous criminals in history, not a damn statue to be found. What taking statues down does is assure all citizens that we won’t glorify traitors and murderers nor do we sanction them. Teach all of that history you want in school and in museums, not by subjecting the ancestors to a monumental crime in the public square.

 

Does Ted Cruz do anything besides make inane statements?

 

All of your points are valid and I mostly agree, but they don't protect the founding fathers from claims of racism. They have no protection against the claim that they didn't consider blacks as equally created men. Once the statues come down and everything is renamed, the angry people will still find themselves angry because not all the racists of American history have been dealt with. In reality, most of them will always be angry, but that's neither here nor there.