Offensive lines are about chemistry as much as talent. They are completely unpredictable and losing or adding one guy can take a line from great to bad and vice-versa. So if you build an O-line and *then* acquire a QB, by the time the QB is any good, your O-Line is unlikely to remain great. You want the QB first so that when the other pieces fall into place, you don't have to then find a QB and wait a couple of years for him to develop while all those other pieces age or get lost to FA. I know the model here is the Cowboys, but they are pretty unique in how they built their team and how well it's worked out. Altanta, a team with a dominant O-Line as an example, only drafted 1 of them. Same with most other teams with great O-Lines. You assemble a group of random people from random places (draft, FA, trade) and then try to scheme so they work together extremely well and hope it lasts.
S So you don't think we need to draft offensive linemen first? Do you want to draft a QB first and wait to draft offensive linemen, or just take the best pick available either way?
I would put every resource into finding a QB. Once you have that position settled, you don't have to think about it for another 10 years and can work on everything else. I look at it as similar to the defense - they've built a *fantastic* defense, but it's all for naught. If they get a rookie QB this year, and then he takes 2 years to develop, half the pieces on the current defense will be gone by the time he's any good, so they'll have just gone in circles and wasted a #1 defense. QB is the one and only position in the NFL (minus kicker/punter) where, once you find a franchise guy, you can pencil him in for 10-15 years. Every other position tends to get lost to free agency or decline or whatever much quicker. So if you build around those other areas, your window is so much tinier before you have to start replacing them and you're sort of spinning your wheels. I look at Altanta or Detroit or San Diego as models here. Their teams don't always win and haven't always had great lines or receivers or defenses or whatever else. But they have absolute 100% stability in that key position. So if and when things do come together in those other areas, they have a veteran QB with chemistry with his receivers and offensive sets, etc such that they are in position to take advantage of it.
Don't you think they drafted Savage for that reason? They never gave him a year as starter to develop. I can't help but wonder if we will see the same thing happen with another drafted quarterback if Rick and Bill are running the show. Who do you see available by the time we draft to actually have the potential to be that 10-15 year quarterback who can lead us? I don't follow much college ball, so I don't have a clue when it comes to that area. Is there anyone worth wheeling and dealing for, that could be used to draft up to snag that QB? Or, is it best to just draft whoever is available come our pick, because it isn't worth giving up draft picks or players for the unknown? After all, lots of great quarterbacks were drafted well beyond the first round.
That's absolutely possible - but Savage was 4th (?) round pick that was more of a flier than anything else. Hopefully he turns into something, but the odds were very much against him. 32 teams were in agreement that they didn't see a significant amount of potential in him. If they really do believe in Savage, great - start him and see what happens. But it doesn't seem he's likely to be the answer based on his pedigree or his results thus far (and his virtual inability to unseat one of the worst starting QBs in the league). Honestly, I have no idea. I've learned over the years that what makes you good in the NFL is very different from college, and I'm not very good at identifying those traits. So there may very well not be anyone available this year. But I find it hard to believe that over a 4 year period, our team hasn't been able to identify anyone they believe they could be that guy (beyond the possibility of Savage). So either the team is terrible at talent evaluation or they don't care enough about the position or something else is going on. I wouldn't criticize them if this were a 1-year problem. But we're going into year 4 of a QB-guru's tenure without even a functional QB. Something is very wrong there. He might go through his entire contract with stopgap QBs, which is a gigantic waste of his supposed strength.
I know exactly what you mean!! It's either a case of bad luck, terrible scouting, terrible development and coaching, terrible play designs, or a combination of all of them. So many NFL quarterbacks that were overlooked in the first 3 rounds became great, and then again so many 1st round picks never panned out. So yes, some of it is just luck on who you choose, but I believe a lot of it comes from how they are used within the system. I am as puzzled as you as to why our team can't seem to find or develop a QB very well. It's really frustrating.
By your logic, this regime would have already failed by drafting either of the two QB's who were projected to be early round picks (Bortles and Manziel). Teams fail QB's just as much as QB's fail. Derek Carr and Dak are very much the byproducts of their stron OLines. David Carr possibly has a different career if he didn't go to an expansion team. Aaron Rodgers possibly has a different career if he's thrust right into starting, vs sitting and developing. I just think you have a very off base and utopian view of the QB position being "settled". Drafted QBs often will take 3-5 years to declare themselves, unless you're putting them on a team that already has core pieces of the line and offense in place.
I fail to see all these missed QB opportunities. There's Derek Carr (who may have been blackballed by ownership for other reasons) and Jimmy G, who still is largely unproven, and would have been their next selection. They apparently dodged bullets by avoiding Bortles and Manziel... who if you choose the QB or bust model, they would have had to take one of them in 2014, correct?
No, I was taking about all the guys they signed and rotated through the position trying to find the one.
Sorry, I read your post as there's been plenty of great QB's coming out of the first 3 rounds. As for the guys they signed/rotated... did you honestly have super high expectations for any of them? The only reason Brock had expectations was the contract. He ended up being worse than all those other guys.
1st move should be cut Savage so we can eliminate him from the conversation. He's average and injury prone so not worth counting on in any 3 QB setup. Brock, Weeden, and a new rookie or trade should be your 3 QB setup.
Well I certainly didn't understand why Bill was so big on Hoyer and Fitzpatrick, and never had any expectations for either. I was more excited about Mallet and Osweiller, simply because I thought maybe they could become great with more experience. Mallet was certainly far too immature, and at least Osweiller has the leader characteristics, but I don't see anything to get excited about so far. He has actually frustrated me more than any of the rest, simply because I thought he would be better to be sought after for so much money.
