No, you’re senile. You straight up quoted me saying I’d trade Harden straight up for Giannis by quoting me saying I’d trade Harden straight up for Giannis. Lol. Reading comprehension man.
I’ve been very clear in this thread from day one. Views on Harden, the Rockets, the current state of the nba, etc. I get the team is trying to win now. I don’t put the odds of it happening very high at all. As such I concluded that if thenriht offer came along that moved the window 5 years in the future and was an otherwise “fair” offer I’d consider it. Giannis for Harden Falls in that camp for me.
How many franchises with a superstar in their prime have operated like that? If u have a superstar caliber player like Harden, then u do all that u can to try and get a chip because u may never get another player like that for many years. Would u also advocate for the Spurs to trade Kawhi for someone like Giannis to move their window 5 years in the future because GS makes the likelihood that they win a ring not very high at all as well? U don’t take a clear step back when u are arguably the 2nd best team in the NBA with an MVP candidate locked up for the next 6 years and the chance to add another star to the roster to take the team to an even higher level.
It's a good question? None? Problem is this is always a hindsight argument. I guess if you have, for example, John Stockton and Karl Malone, a solid coach and decent role players, the thought is one day you'll stand atop that mountain. But hey, its not like there's been a team ever win a ring playing the style the Rockets have either. There's also never - or rarely ever (?? can't think of a modern one) - been a team win a ring without one or two of their own, highly picked draft choice on the roster. I guess the Pistons (Billups, Hamilton, Wallace) all drafted elsewhere. Tayshaun drafted by them, but 23rd. Then there's the #1 guy being as bad as Harden has been defensively. I guess Dirk kind of falls into that category, though he was never considered quite the liability Harden has been. [though I agree that Harden has improved in this area]. If we go by history, Rockets have various things working against them. If u have a superstar caliber player like Harden, then u do all that u can to try and get a chip because u may never get another player like that for many years. Would u also advocate for the Spurs to trade Kawhi for someone like Giannis to move their window 5 years in the future because GS makes the likelihood that they win a ring not very high at all as well?[/quote] well Kawhi is already 2 years younger than Harden. Not Giannis young, but his window is already "longer". And of course, he doesn't just play defense, he excels defensively. Would I trade Harden straight up for Kawhi? Probably not... because I think Kawhi needs that Pop type coach and relationship and wouldn't excel for MDA like Harden does. Would I trade Kawhi for Giannis if I'm the Spurs? Not sure. But I guarantee you Pop would think long and hard about it. And as great and scary as Pop + Kawhi has been in terms of winning, Pop + Giannis would scare me as a Rockets fan. I wish people would stop saying this. How are the Rockets clearly the 2nd best team in the NBA? They have one conference Finals win in the last 20 years. They lost to the Spurs last year, after the Spurs comparable MVP candidate went out with an injury and after their veteran savvy leader starting PG went down with an injury. Plus, I don't think it changes your point if you just say the Rockets are top 5. Cause 2-5 doesn't matter much, they're all a GULF behind the Warriors. Similarly, the "chance to add another star to the roster" is based on what exactly?
So you’ve confirmed that no team has just traded away a superstar that they have locked up for many years just because their chance at a title isn’t great at the moment even tho they have 1 of the best teams in the league. I wonder why that is? U keep bringing up that Harden isn’t good defensively. Did u ever answer my question of if a team had ever won a title while being led by a perimeter player that barely makes or takes jumpers like Giannis? Kawhi is 26. GS isn’t going anywhere. The chance that the Spurs win a title any time soon is slim, just like the Rockets. According to u, they might as well trade Kawhi for a younger star and move their window 5 years in the future. I never said we were clearly the 2nd best team in the NBA, I said we were arguably the 2nd best team. There’s a difference. The Rockets having 1 CF win in the last 20 years is completely irrelevant when talking about who is the 2nd best team in the league this year. Losing to the Spurs last year is also an irrelevant point. We’re not bringing back the same team. We added a top 10 player in CP3, good role players like Tucker and Moute, and have had major improvement from Ego and Clint. the chance to add another star to the roster is clearly based on the fact that we have 2 top 10 players on the roster who are well liked and highly respected by their peers as well as being 1 of the best teams in the NBA...
I don't understand the point of this back and forth. The Rockets are already trying to do things that no team has ever done to win a championship. So whether or not a team has every traded away their #1 guy in this exact situation, or a team has had a Giannis that barely takes jumpers is pointless. If we're just going to assume if a team operates in a way that no team has previously has no shot at winning a championship, then the current Rockets and where they're headed have no shot at a championship. You're just repeating what I said?? Kawhi has a longer window than Harden. Check. They might consider trading Kawhi for Giannis. Check. Gotcha. My bad. The TWolves added a bunch of talent. The Celtics are rolling. Detroit's doing well. Denver added an all star to a team that was one of the best in the 2nd half last year. Yada Yada. The only relevant thing is what happens to them in the playoffs. There's lot of teams in the nba with star players well liked and highly respected. There's no obvious path to a 3rd star. The Rockets no longer really have the assets or cap space - now or future - to add that third star. But DM is a wizard and anything is possible.[/QUOTE]
No, it’s not pointless. U want to trade Harden for a window 5 years from now. I’m telling u that u want to do something that no franchise does. I wonder why no franchise does that? It’s because u try to make it work with the superstar/MVP candidate that u already have. Lol, so u can bring up a team not winning a chip when their #1 is as bad defensively as Harden is, but me bringing up a team not winning a chip when their #1 option on the perimeter barely makes or takes jumpers like the great Giannis is pointless. Gtfoh with that. “If we're just going to assume if a team operates in a way that no team has previously has no shot at winning a championship, then the current Rockets and where they're headed have no shot at a championship.” Wth does this even mean? Where did this assumption come from? Teams don’t trade away MVP candidates because their chance at a title isn’t great, that’s just fact. Does it mean that keeping that player will result in a chip? No, but that doesn’t prevent teams from doing all that they can to win it all with their top level player. They just don’t just trade them away for a window 5 years later. Lol, now you’re just reaching. Anyone with common sense knows that the Rockets are arguably the 2nd best team in the NBA for various reasons. Just stop bringing up these teams like Detroit, the Wolves, and Denver that are clearly not on our level. If u can’t see that having Harden, CP3, a great FO, and a great team puts us in a greater position than most teams in the NBA to attract another star then Idk what to tell u. Obviously Morey will have some work to do to get it done, but it is very much possible.
No franchise has ever won with this offensive style. No franchise has ever won when their #1 guy has been as historically bad defensively as Harden. No franchise has ever won when their #1 guy has turned the ball over so high historically. If we're going down the no franchise route... we've got bigger problems. They're all pointless. Not just yours... mine, too. Because I'm not one to say "x hasn't happened before, so it'll never happen". So... gtfo with the response...? Why is this complicated for you?? See above. It's not an assumption. The Rockets do various things that no franchise that has ever won a championship does. Championship teams don't shoot as many 3 pointers as the Rockets. Championship teams don't have their #1 guy turn it over as much. Championship teams don't have their #1 guy being so bad defensively. Those are FACTS. And AGAIN... I don't care so much about hasn't happened before, won't happen now. I'm bringing up various points to counter your dumb Giannis doesn't shoot many jumpers, so he can't be a championship #1 guy. Beyond the fact that he's 22, beyond that fact that tons of teams have won championships historically being predominantly inside teams... it doesn't matter to me. Yes, we know this. You've repeated it ad naseum. I've repeated ad naseum, based on hindsight... maybe those teams SHOULD HAVE considered it. Jazz/Malone-Stockton, Knicks/Ewing, etc, etc. We'll never know. There's equally not a ton or any examples of players like Harden, top 5 MVP types that for whatever reason has pretty volatile playoffs with some year after year issues to point to, that all of a sudden get past that, on the same team. The closest I can think of is David Robinson. Who didn't really disappoint in the playoffs really, but couldn't get over the top... until Duncan was added and became the better player. Kobe is close, but it wasn't a question really of can Kobe lead a team to a ring and playoff performance. KG is an example where they ultimately HAD to trade him for less value. Similar with Barkley. Drexler. KD ultimately decided to leave. Lebron left on his own accord... the last two are the players themselves coming to the conclusion. People like to point to Hakeem and Dirk. Maybe... I don't really think either of those guys disappointed in the playoffs before ultimately winning. I mean Hakeem wasn't better in the playoffs EVERY year, but he mostly was, and sometimes meaningfully so, especially by PER. I've gone through Dirk as well. It just takes us full circle to some of my original points. Harden has really under-performed on the whole in the playoffs, relative to the regular season, as compared to other superstar players historically. How about this. Name me some players that fit the Harden mold at 28 with playoff hiccups (to be kind) who then went on to win a ring with their team? This is so Houston-centric in thinking its funny. I listen to XM Radio religiously and participate in other NBA fan boards. Houston is BY NO MEANS universally considered the #2 team in the NBA right now. If you can't see that there are plenty of other teams equally in line to pick up those same stars, idk what to tell u. Which third star do you see this team adding and how do you propose DM gets it done? Throw out a bunch of possibilities if you want.
u know what, I really don’t care about this argument anymore I need to stop visiting this stupid thread
I just keep coming back cause everything is going so great it's kind of boring in here, lol If either of us knew the future, we'd be on some island doing better things right now!
we get it now if GSW and Rockets swapped their best players in 2015 or 2017 the Rockets not GSW will be champions so might as well get Giannis because he's a clearly a championship player which will magically make the Rockets champions in 4 years
I misread still doesn't change the fact that trading Harden for Giannis now is stupid if you put a poll here that trade will lose by a landslide but whatever makes you and this thread relevant I guess
why not here? because clutchfans are smarter than that? at least here we can be sure almost everyone's priority is the rockets. the fact you're afraid to put one here is because you know you're wrong and you're only doubling down on your own stupidity
Why it on r/nba? It has a bigger more active commmunity on nba fans across all teams as opposed to a bias source. The fact that you’re too scared to post it there tells me all I need to know. Your continuing refusal shows how dumb you are loud and clear. /see what I did there. Please go away. It’s tiring dealing with someone so eager to put words in other people’s mouths, throw out words they don’t know they definition/implication of, can’t properly read what someone else says and resorts to insults.
So everyone besides Warriors should give up their stars in prime and hope they will be good in 5 years? If Rockets should do that I don't know any team that shouldnt do that. If everyone else is doing that, Morey should actually acquire other stars in prime while everyone else are selling. AD would be really nice on this team. Beard + unibrow.
There is !NO! player or Player+Picks combo i would trade Harden for. He is the ONLY guy that can lead a team full of scrubs (2015) to that kind of a season. Giannis? Really? He has a pretty good team overall and so far couldn't do ****. He has potential, but why trade Harden for a guy that !might! be as good as Harden is right now? Giannis to me, is highly overrated right now. If he starts winning games we can talk about Giannis being ANYWHERE NEAR Harden.
