Not sure, but I think Magic is the only rookie to ever win Finals MVP. yeah, but that's overrated. lol
1/2: Magic/Bird 3: Jordan 4: Hakeem 5: Shaq 6: LeBron (I think has a shot to be #1) 7: Moses 8: Duncan 9: Kobe 10: Malone or Isiah I know I may get a lot of backlash for not having MJ as #1, but, frankly, when Bird and Magic came in the league they were ready to win. Bird took the C's from 29–53 record to 61–21 (best record) in the league as a rookie and Magic won the Finals MVP in his rookie year. Sophomore year Bird won the Championship. MJ took a while to learn what it takes to win a ring, thus why I think Bird and Magic > MJ. Jordan [*]Magic/Bird tied [*]Hakeem [*]Shaq [*]Moses Malone [*]Lebron (he will move up this list) [*]Duncan [*]Kobe [*]Durant I think you got it, except I don't think Durant has earned his place on this list. I'd put Malone or Isiah over Durant.
Sorry I was originally going to agree with Heypartner's list, but after I looked at it a bit more, I didn't agree with enough choices, so I made my own. Thus why this was in my comment above. Sorry I can't edit previous post.
The idea that Duncan has performed at a higher level longer than Dream is just absurd. As I wrote in another thread last year... And another thread in response to what... And seriously, dissing Magic? Magic would be my first choice in any All-time NBA draft. He wasn't the best player, but he was close enough and his understanding of the game makes up the difference. He made the game what it is today. The guy was a phenom on the court and a cultural icon. When I was a kid, everyone wanted to pass like Magic, even kids who were ballhogs before Magic. It was great. Sure, later on, people wanted to be like Mike, but only a few of us can dunk, much less dunk with style. Everyone can pass and Magic made it cool for everyone to try. For those who weren't around, Magic and Bird saved the NBA. Magic's rookie year was the last year the NBA Finals were not broadcast live. Imagine that.
One of them didn't miss playoffs in his prime and learned how to pass before he was 30. Duncan is the best big man in the NBA at the age of 36.
And one of them had good guard play his entire career. Do you seriously know so little about basketball and the history of the Rockets that you would make that statement? On the passing, neither guy is going to be mistaken for Oscar (Duncan averages about half an assist more than Dream), but there is a difference in what position they played and what was expected of them. Oh, and I should mention that one of them never bricked a bunch of free throws in an NBA Finals game and had to be bailed out by an aging teammate of the other. And, one of them never deferred from guarding the opposition's best post player.
Clyde was pretty much the second best player in the league for several years. He could easily play three positions. Point, Shooting Guard and Small Forward. And he could play all three positions extremely well. He was the reason the Trailblazers went the finals twice. Clyde was probably best rebounding and passing guard during the time he played, as well as one of the best open court in the history of the league. He was called the Clyde the Glide because he had major hops and played above the rim. Dirk and Howard wouldn't have been as good in the 80's and early 90's. The reason for that was that it was a different game in the 80's and early 90's. It was a more physically demanding game and required more mental toughness. Howard and Dirk would have gotten slaughtered by guys like Oakley, Laimbeer, Moses, Mason, Mchale, and Parish. I think Wade is the only guy out of the above three that would have excelled in the 80's the same way he did in the last ten years.
I do believe that Duncan is superior, but I really, extremely highly value Duncan. On my all-time list, he surpasses Bird, Wilt and Shaq and is 5th on my all-time list. My list: Jordan Magic Duncan Shaq Dream Bird Kobe LBJ Garnett Karl Malone
When you are looking for guys that are the best, you need to look at guys that were talented and winners. And you when you look at winners, you need to look at how they won. Were they the main guy and how much help did they get. Take a look at Larry Bird. No-one will say he wasn't talented, he was, but he wasn't exactly the most athletically gifted played on the court. In an interview, Magic was asked what made Larry Bird a good player, and he said something to the effect of: Larry wanted to win so bad, he would cut your throat and not have any seconds thoughts about it, if that is what he had to do to win. Remember guys like Dominique Wilkins, Derrick Coleman and Shawn Kemp. What did these guys win? They were all good players but never really won anything. Ten Best from 1980: (I think these are all guys that would will their teams to wins which is the ultimate mark of a good player). 1.) Magic Johnson 2.) Moses Malone 3.) Larry Bird 4.) Michael Jordan 5.) Clyde Drexler 6.) Hakeem Olajuwon 7.) Isiah Thomas 8.) Shaquille O'neal 9.) Kobe Bryant 10.) Dwyane Wade Honorable Mention 1.) Tim Duncan 2.) Kevin Garnet 3.) Karl Malone 4.) Steve Nash 5.) John Stockton 6.) Dr. J 7.) Patrick Ewing Lebron James and Kevin Durant will get added to that list sooner or later. Lebron gets knocked down because of mental toughness and Kevin has only been the league a few years.
I have only watched the NBA since 1994 so I can only rank from then: 1) MJ 2) Magic 3) Bird 4) Dream 5) Duncan 6) Lebron - he can move up into top 3 if he ends up with 3+ championships 7) Shaq 8) Kobe 9) Karl Malone 10) Barkley
**** statistics and production and all that ****. Let's just go with a Skip Bayless style analysis of "This guy's a winner or not!" I'm freaking sorry, but Isiah? Over Garnett, Shaq, and Duncan? Are you kidding me? I wouldn't put Isiah over Nash, for crying out loud, and Nash is really criminally underrated by people because of whining about his defense. But no, Nash creating the greatest offense ever< one game on a broken ankle which they lost. How ridiculous.
I think people seriously underrate Bird these days by looking at where he lands on most people's lists. This guy is a proven winner, intangibles through the roof, people say he had hall of famers on his team, but he carried those scrubs from indiana to the NCAA finals, that not-so-great 79 C's to the best record in the league. I would argue, he made them hall of fame calibre players.
I couldn't agree with you more. At the end of the day, what makes a hall of farmer an all time great is there will to win, mental toughness and their ability to make other players better. Guys like Larry Bird and Michael Jordan did that. You could throw guys like Magic Johnson, Isiah Thomas and Hakeem Olajuwon into this mix as well. These guys didn't care about winning for the sake of winning per say. It was more about not losing and being the best. Bird and Jordan just absolutely hated to lose. Losing was like poison to them. They were relentless. They practiced constantly, played both offense and defense, chewed out their teammates when they slacked off, and gave it 100% every night, which why it was fun to watch them play. I would argue that Drexler was more talented than Jordan. Drexler was a better passer, rebounder and had a better open court game. Before Jordan won all his championships, their were people that said Drexler was better than Jordan due to his all around game. While Drexler may have been more talented than Jordan, their is no way he deserves to be recognized as a better player even if he was, because he didn't do enough to push and will his teams to win as many NBA championships as Jordan or Bird did. In today's NBA, the only guys I that have that attitude are Kobe Bryant, Dwayne Wade and Kevin Garnett. Kobe Bryant doesn't have the mental toughness that Jordan, Isiah, Olajuwon, and Bird had, and Kevin Garnet does not have the work ethic or the ability to push his teammates the same way that Bird and Jordan did. While Dwayne Wade has the mental toughness that Jordan, Bird and Isiah had, he is nowhere near as relentless as they were. It is just a different league now, and it is not as much fun to watch. Really miss the old timers.
1. MJ 2. Larry Legend 3. Magic 4. Dr. J 5. Skyhook 6. Zeke 7. The Dream 8. Big Shamrock 9. Mailman 10. Human Highlight Film Honorable Mention 11. The Glide 12. James Worthy 13. Reggie Miller 14. Kevin McHale 15. The Admiral 16. Lebron 17. Black Mamba 18. Chris Mullin 19. John Stockton Started getting into NBA action back in 1986
I would first open with guys who I consider locks. These are players who have had their entire career play out during this timeframe and have clearly shown enough to warrent inclusion in this list. For me that would include: Michael Jordan Magic Johnson Larry Bird Hakeem Olajuwon Karl Malone Shaquille O'Neal That just leaves 4 spots open as I open it up to players who have are currently playing I see three guys who belong on the list: Kobe Bryant Tim Duncan LeBron James So now with one spot left there are many guys to consider. A quick list of deserving guys would look like this: Dominique Wilkens Mosses Malone Kevin McHale James Worthy Isaiah Thomas Clyde Drexler Charles Barkley John Stockton Patrick Ewing Reggie Miller David Robinson Jason Kidd Kevin Garnett Paul Pierce Dwayne Wade So my top 10 would look like this: 1) Michael Jordan: Goes without saying. The guy was really effiecient, while evolving his game over time and winning over and over again. 2) Larry Brid: The most clutch player of all time who was a deadly shooter which opened up the rest of his offensive game. Great size allowed him to fill out the stat sheet quite nice. 3) Magic Johnson: Lebron is making a case, but Magic is probably the most complete modern era player. He could score with the best of them, but held back and made his teams so much better by setting up his guys in great situations which were created by Magic's greatness. 4) Hakeem Olajuwon: The best big man on the list, Hakeem's game was truly remarkable and something we will probably never see out of a big again. I know at some point he was top 10 all time in points, rebounds, blocks and steals. That is truly amazing. 5) Shaquille O'Neal: Dominate big who was able to develop a good touch up to 12 feet that allowed him to be great. Would have been interesting to see his prime against the guys who came before him but we can only go by what we saw and Shaq showed alot. 6) Kobe Bryant: The closest thing we will ever see to Jordan. Kobe's game has evolved over time much like Jordan's did. He even has his same killer instinct and drive. I don't see much room for him to move up as his career is all but established. 7) Tim Duncan: While his numbers are real good they don't tell the whole story. He never seems to dominate games, but more often than not the Spurs are winning and he is front and center behind their 4 championship teams. A truly remarkable player who may have had the least physical talent of all the guys on this list. 8) Karl Malone: I hate him, but that doesn't change the fact that he is real good. He is the second all time leading scorer which is a tribute to his consistency. While he does have one MVP, he doesn't seem to have those 3-5 truly amazing years which puts him lower than others. 9) LeBron James: In the middle of his prime so he has room to move up, but for now I can't put him ahead of the 8 listed above him. He combines Magic's all around game with Jordan's scoring which is a scary thought. Took a major stride in getting rid of his chocker label by winning his first championship but there's still work to do. He is still far to ineffective at the line (especially 4th quarter), but the big test will come in a few years when he won't be able to get to the hole as he can now. It will be than that his outside and post game will be in the forefront and only than will we see how he compares to Kobe and Jordan. 10) Dominique Wilkens: Sometimes we forget just how great he was. Known for his dunking, but make no mistake that he had an offensive game outside of that. Great size that allowed him to do alot on the court. Just a victim of bad timing in that his Hawks teams were in their prime the same time of Bird's Celtics teams, and while the Hawks gave them battles, just didn't have enough. Wilkens remained a great scorer through the first half of the 90's (something that's at times forgotten) and ended pretty high on the all time scoring list.
