hakeem had the greatest peak but duncan has more accolades over hakeem and at the end of the day that's whats matters in the long run. i don't think duncan individually is a better player than hakeem just like i don't think bill russell individually is a better player than lebron james but team accolades is what sports fans tend to lean on. that's just the way it is.
Lebron has a better peak. A better 4-5 year stretch. Some of it is projections. Unless something crazy happens, Lebron is almost certainly gonna end up top 5.
He's already better than Kobe legacy wise if you are being objective. Outside of rings (and Lebron matches # of rings as the best player of team with 2), Kobe has NOTHING on Lebron. And I still think Russell is overrated. I'm sorry, a big man shooting 44% for his career is absurdly wrong. Winning matters, but c'mon now. Can you imagine if MJ or Lebron shoot 44%? Hell, Kobe gets crucified for being a chucker and his career fg% is 45%.
I have to agree on Russell being overrated. Not that I've ever seen him play, but if you go back 30 years, before Magic, Bird, and MJ, didn't almost everyone give the title of best player ever to either Wilt or Oscar Robertson? Now, we've got more people who never saw these guys play giving their opinions, and Russell seems to have somehow jumped ahead of the other two.
Hakeem better than Duncan, light years better on both ends of the floor. Duncan has the biggest advantage though, a first class, 2nd to none-run organization that keptTim surrounded with great players. Ill take Duncan over Shaq though. Hes the best player post Jordan/Olajuwon era. Lebron over Kobe? Nope, its all preference. Do you want the strong willed 2nd best offensive juggernaut in the history of the NBA with great defense, and whom btw, WANTS the last shot and will make it. Or do you want the team oriented guy who is great but defers and doesnt have the consistent mental fortitude that greatest players ever have? LBJ is an incredible player but when the pressure is at its greatest, youre not sure which Lebron youre gona get. I dont want 2 face, give me Batman, my preference is Kobe. Both Kobe and Lebron won back to back championships on their own, but bot needed massive help to get over the hump. Kobe- Pau/Bynum.. Lebron- Wade/Bosh
You're going to actually need some substance. Saying "Just Stop" is about as effective as hurling insults. I'm no Lebron fan, but he's the most versatile player since Magic Johnson. He's won more MVPs than Kobe. And while his only rings were with Miami, it's not like Kobe was without outside help (no superstar with a ring really ever is, basketball is still somewhat of a team game).
Let's elaborate on your point (and this is with Lebron about 2/3 of his way of his career so his stats/accolades are just going to pile up even more) Lebron v. Kobe PPG - 27.6 to 25.5 (Lebron) Playoffs PPG - 28.1 to 25.6 (Lebron) RPG - 7.3 to 5.3 (Lebron) Playoffs RPG - 8.6 to 5.1 (Lebron) APG - 6.9 to 4.8 (Lebron) Playoffs APG - 6.7 to 4.7 (Lebron) SPG - 1.7 to 1.5 (Lebron) BPG - 0.8 to 0.5 (Lebron) FG% - 49% to 45% (Lebron) 3pt fg% - 33.7 to 33.6 (tie) FT% - 74% to 84% (Kobe) So statistically, Lebron destroys Kobe. It's not questionable. Now let's go into individual accolades MVPs - 4 to 1 (Lebron) Finals MVP - 2 to 2 (tie) 1st team All-NBA - 8 to 11 (Kobe) 1st team All-NBA defense - 5 to 9 (Kobe) Player of the Month - 25 to 17 (Lebron) All-stars appearances - 9 to 15 (Kobe) Rings - 2 to 5 (Kobe) In regards to All-NBAs, Lebron will easily surpass Kobe and he has had unanimous decisions multiple times, compared to Kobe. The only factor Kobe has above Lebron is rings. So if you look at the totality of what both have done in their careers and what they have accomplished FOR their teams, it's not hard to say Lebron is already better than Kobe.
1. Jordan 2. Magic 3. Kareem 4. Wilt 5. Hakeem 6. Russel 7. Bird 8. Kobe 9. Lebron 10. Shaq 11. Duncan 12. Big O 13. West 14. K. Malone 15. M. Malone
Again, like I've said in many threads MJ is arguably the greatest player ever, but he's not easily the best player ever. I do not think he could effect the overall game as say Wilt or Olajuwon, while I don't think the Bulls beat as many super teams during the 90s versus the teams in the 80s and 60s. The Supreme Category (no order): Michael Jordan (most dominant and versatile scorer, awesomely well-rounded) Wilt Chamberlain (most dominant center and big man scorer ever, physical speciman with underrated skill sets) Hakeem Olajuwon (most well-rounded, athletically gifted center ever) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (most consistent center, best longevity) I believe the best NBA player ever is amongst those four. Those four were the most dominant over long period of time. The Ultra Category (no order): Magic Johnson Larry Bird Bill Russell Shaquille O'Neal Kobe Bryant LeBron James Oscar Robertson Jerry West It's a general shuffle with this group of players. The Fantastic Category #1 (no order): Moses Malone Tim Duncan Dr. J (Julius Erving) Isiah Thomas The Fantastic Category #2 (no order): Karl Malone David Robinson Rick Barry Patrick Ewing Kevin Garnett Walt Frazier Charles Barkley John Havlicek George Gervin Dwyane Wade Dirk Nowitzki Elvin Hayes The Very Good Category Kevin McHale Allen Iverson John Stockton Bob Pettit Dominique Wilkins Bob Lanier Jason Kidd Clyde Drexler Paul Pierce James Worthy Steve Nash Bill Walton Kevin Johnson Scottie Pippen Dave Cowens Sidney Moncrief Gary Payton Big general Shuffle area:
Wilt has two rings. 1967 vs. Celtics (Russell's only loss in the postseason, other than the year when Russell was injured and didn't play) and 1972 vs. Knicks (featuring Pat Riley vs. Phil Jackson as players).
I think the top 15 has to come from this pool of 30 players. Can we agree in that? PG: Magic Johnson Oscar Robertson John Stockton Gary Payton Jason Kidd SG: Michael Jordan Kobe Bryant Clyde Drexler Jerry West Reggie Miller SF: Larry Bird LeBron James Julius Erving John Havlicek Scottie Pippen PF: Tim Duncan Karl Malone Kevin Garnett Dirk Nowitzki Charles Barkley C: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar Wilt Chamberlain Bill Russell Hakeem Olajuwon Shaquille O'Neal So incredibly difficult to halve that 30 into 15. Even harder to cut it to 10.
Put Wade on the SG list please. SG is the one area where I disagree. It should be - Jordan Kobe West Wade Drexler IMO
No, your methodology is incorrect since you're weighing each position equally while some positions are inherently more important that others. For instance, Moses Malone isn't on your list of centers, but he definitely has a better legacy than most of the other players you listed.
