This is what you told me: I asked for what stats, you linked a site with a couple defensive stats (def +/- and opp PER). The only one stat which painted Scola as a good defender is not a good measure for the reasons above. So pardon me for actually considering your reasoning or "making things convoluted" as you put it, rather than just blindly accepting it. Again, if there is some other metric you are refering to I would be happy to consider it, but I am sorry "counterpart def +/-" doesn't get it done. I understand your concept, I just dont think theres a difference between bad and limited. If Scola is limited, then Landry/Brooks are limited as well. Thats not really at all what I am saying...at all actually. The lineup that had the best def op ppp, had 4 stellar defenders (Alston, Battier, Artest, Yao) and Scola which made one of the best defenses that year. I will repeat what I am saying in short so my message is clear: I don't think Scola is a good defender. Do I think Scola can exist on a good defensive team, where his weaknesses can be covered up? Yes, I do. But, in a vacuum, I think he is a bad defender. I base this opinion on what I have seen with my own two eyes and now can see some statistical evidence based on what you posted. And I am challenging your evidence of: "basically all defensive stats" which you seem to base your opinion on. I can't see more than one misleading stat thats says Scola is a good defender. So please enlighten me.
Deckard: 4th in the league in defense in 08-09? We were 6th at opposite FG%, 28th at opposite TOs... Where did you see that data? I believe you, just that I didn't know that, nor how the rating is calculated. Anyway, it's clear that we were a much better defensive team. Alston played mroe than a half of the season. Alston was in my mind one of the better defenders at his position. So was Yao. Add Artest for Martin; Chuck playing center minutes... but against backup centers (many of them are not even true centers). I even think that Wafer was also more effective than Chase has been this season. Another things to consider: - I honestly don't consider the current team a 22th defensive team. We have had chemistry issues with the excess of depth, with some young players thinking on trade deadline, with Hayes injured 7 games, with the rotation problems at the start of the season (not only the amount of new guys, also Yao's b2b's case...). So 16th-18th is probably more reasonable. That said, is very possible that Scola's level was better at that times. A better team dynamics may be key for some guys to step up their level. I truly don't remember being that frustrated with his D at those times as I've been this season. I've seen a better commitment from the entire team since the deadline. Still, can't consider him an average defender. Look at these other PFs: - Nowitzki - West - Millsap - Blair/McDyess - Garnett - Amir Johnson/Evans - Hansbrough/McRoberts - Humphries - Boozer - Pau Gasol - Zach Randolph - Lamarcus Aldridge - Blake Griffin - Kevin Love - Josh Smith - Chris Bosh - Kenyon Martin - Channing Frye - Brandon Bass - Jason Thompson - Gerald Wallace/Tyrus Thomas - Andray Blatche - Elton Brand - Jeffries - Mbah a Moute/Gooden/Ilyasova - Jamison/Samuels - Ibaka - David Lee - Wilcox I see more than 15 players who are better than him defensively. And particularly this season, I think he has been absolutely below average.
lol, well played sir although, i would contend that 1 j-hill + 1 pat = roughly 1 scola, production wise. so seeing scola traded would be sad- but not the end of the rockets incredible run to the championship
It's something I came across on NBA.com. If I misread something, perhaps you can point out where. This is from April of 2009. 3. Yao Ming, Houston Rockets Key Stats: 75 games, 7.3 drpg, 0.39 spg, 1.95 bpg, -5.2 eff. diff. Rockets' defensive rating: 105.5, 4th in league Despite a slew of injuries, including season-ending surgery for Tracy McGrady, the Rockets have remained near the top of both the Western Conference standings and the NBA's defensive rankings. Houston has two of the best perimeter defenders in the league in Ron Artest and Shane Battier, but Artest and Battier have missed 13 and 22 games, respectively, this season. And the numbers show that their presence isn't as important to the Rockets' defense as that of Yao. It helps to be big. Yao and Dwight Howard are the only players in the top six in both defensive rebounds and blocked shots per game. When you've got a 7-foot-6 presence in the middle, he's going to make your defense better. http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/john_schuhmann/04/10/defensiveplayer/
If you're watching Ibaka right now, you would see why a Scola for Ibaka + filler trade would be a win-win for both sides. 18 blocks in the past 3 games.
They're in win now mode, but they're not trading a 21 yr old for a 32 yr old. Perkins and Serge is what they need to get out the west for years to come, not scola.
I would answer your other questions, but this point makes it clear we just have to agree to disagree. So let's just ended here. You see, I view basketball as a team sport. I view both offense and defense as team concepts. I view players playing together as a group, and not separate them in vacuums. I don't think about how players would do in one-on-one basketball. I look at them as 5-on-5 basketball. There are communications on defense. There's playing the passing lane, communications on pick and roll, rotations, help inside, packing the paint to force jumpers, etc. etc. etc. that cannot be isolated. So when I look at player defenses, I look at how we do from year to year with different lineups. Our interior defense as awesome in all the Scola-Yao years as was the Hayes-Yao year. So Scola replacing Hayes in the starting lineup did not weaken on interior. Nor did Landry replacing Hayes a bit for backup minutes. But when Yao went down, our defense fell apart like a deck of cards. In reality, it really just shows how much better Yao was than Hayes or Scola or anyone else. Scola can be that piece inside, and he did that well. He just can't be the centerpiece. Hence, why I used the term 'limited'.
The time to go after a player like Ibaka is early on before they put up numbers. Cross off Ibaka from your wish list. It's too late now.
Scola is a below averge defender no matter how or what you look at. He gives effort so it doesnt look as bad, but there are too many things he cant do to hide him all the time. He's bad in space, ie pick and rolls and pops, and he's bad on the interior in a 1 on 1 matchup. The first rule is the ability to handle your man. Its like mini 1 on 1 battles. The bigger question is, does everything else he do cover for his poor defense?
I agree with you. I dont really get all these argument shifts and lectures on team defenses, etc. All I asked for was the defensive metrics he was using, but apparently thats not something he wants to share.
There you go again. Luis Scola is 30 years old. He'll be 31 on the last day of April. Why do you consistently add a couple of years to his age? Hell, you've been doing that for a couple of years. Back then, you used an age that would be correct today. You're better than that, or even more forgetful than I am, which I find hard to believe. ;-)-
That's precisely your problem and the ones who claim Scola is a bad defender (in the sense AB is a real bad defender). No matter how much a person with basketball knowledge explain it to you, you won't get it. You'd have to do a serious basketball training course to get it. As I always say in these cases. If you don't believe people with knowledge in this forum, ask a coach with experience and reputation, ask him in person, provide your 'arguments' and see what the seasoned coach says (if he stops laughing and takes you seriously enough to answer).
I would like to thank Carl for making this thread. He has given us a chance to root out all the Scola haters here, so that in the future we may proceed to defecate on them time and time again.
