Time Magazine reveals Cheney's secret hiding place!

This is one of Clinton's "lairs" ~ somehow it's still secret...

 

i actually haven't addressed the cabal in any way, although i'd be delighted to later on. my posts were about tenet, and as director of CIA, and a man who W clearly listened to, he had an obligation to speak up if he felt he was being unduly pressured by other intel agencies, or indeed from w/in the whitehouse. i find hersch's articles rather sensationalist, so i'm likely to take them with a several more grains of salt than you. for me, the larger point about saddam's WMD is what happened to them? no rational person still denies he had them. we know he did, unscom and unmovic proved it, the cia, french, german, russian, uk, israeli and us intel thought he still had them. prewar, other than sean penn and saddam lui stesso, no one was saying they weren't there. i want an explanation of where they went. no one has provided a credible one yet. give me one, w/ evidence, and i'll shut up about it.

 

Hmmm.......I did not see you react in such manner when Miss Plame was outed.

Hypocrisy I sense?



Developing...........

 

As has been explained ad nauseum here, the US loses more WMDs every single year than Saddam was accused of having. There are plenty of possible explanations, some were destroyed without the necessary paperwork being filed, some were shuffled around and misplaced, and some may have been lost altogether. In any case, the shelf life on these things is such that any WMDs that Saddam actually had (that we can PROVE he had) are as useless as the shell that exploded expired Sarin a few weeks ago. How many people did that kill?

At any rate, I find it maddening and frustrating that people who were all gung-ho about WMDs before the war are now saying that they want a "credible explanation with evidence" regarding the disposition of Iraqs WMDs. The administration claimed (as a result of "intelligence" given to us by Irani intelligence officers) that we could not wait even a few weeks for the weapons inspectors to finish their work. It should be incumbent on the ADMINISTRATION to prove THEIR claims. THEY are the ones who exaggerated, misstated, or lied and as such, THEY are the ones who need to prove their case.

We probably could have gotten to the bottom of the WMD programs in Iraq had we simply continued with inspections or expanded them, as Saddam invited us to do. Instead, we chose to start a war that was unjustified, poorly planned, and executed with extreme disdain for human rights.

That is what you are choosing to defend?

 

Some felonies are ok to commit, and some aren't apparently.

 

yes.

 

That is a touching picture of the tribute to the towers that were destroyed with thousands of lives in the 9/11 terrorism attack.

As the 9/11 commission said today, that attack and IRaq which is what you and Andy were discussing are not connected.

 

Exactly. It is truly sad that some people will ignore facts in favor of the GOP line.

 

andy, what is your take on, or explanation for, Salmaan Pak? not what moveon has told you to think, but what you personally think?

 

Wow, the fact that Moveon has gone from not much more than an e-mail list to a stock right wing bogeyman in so short of a time is simultaneously impressive and disheartening.

 

they've been around since the impeachment battle, no? what's that, 6 years?

 

First of all, I have not even BEEN to moveon.org since they did that ad contest.

Second, a grave containing (up to) 150 bodies buried since 1991 has very little bearing on anything. There have been FAR larger mass graves uncovered in Iraq and those were all filled long, LONG ago, most were stocked when the US was still actively supporting Saddam by selling him WMDs and components.

Third, I was sold on this war based on talk of WMDs, not the mass graves that everyone already knew were there, mostly because we helped Saddam kill those people by selling him the weapons to do so. There are MANY more people being slaughtered in other places in the world and if we were going to go on a humanitarian mission, there are at least 4 countries in Africa that would have made the list before Iraq.

http://www.krtdirect.com/photos/preview/preview.htm?doc=KRT/krtphotos/docs/171/748

 

I hadn't heard of them until about a year ago when dean got big.

 

i think you inadvertently proved my point since it's fairly clear from your answer that you don't know what salmaan pak is, what's there, and what it was used for.

 

I guess not. Then again, I don't visit the Weekly Standard, Faux News, or any right wing (or left wing for that matter) blogger sites. If Salmaan Pak is so obscure that it has not been reported in the mainstream press and is not linked on Google (where I found the story I posted on) then I won't have seen it.

Don't believe everything those bloggers write.

 

sorry, having trouble with my arabic transliterations i guess. try this spelling: salman pak

here're some links to save you the trouble:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/iraq/salman_pak.htm
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iraq/salman-pak-east.htm
http://www.nationalreview.com/murdock/murdock040303.asp
http://www.intelmessages.org/Messages/National_Security/wwwboard/messages/826.html
http://cshink.com/salman_pak.htm

just curious what your impression is.

 

My impression is that these claims are dubious given the fact that the 9/11 commission has reported that there was no credible link between Saddam and Al Qaeda. I also noted that all of the sites you provided (along with all the hits on Google with the alternate spelling) are from right wing sources that seem interested in defending the administration position no matter what.

Again, I find it truly sad that some people will ignore facts in favor of the GOP line, which is what Salman Pak appears to be.

 

Salman Pak contains a complete 707 fuselage, just sitting in the desert. there is documented evidence they've used it to train terrorists to hijack airplanes w/ knives. this isn't a republican right wing fantasy. the plane is there. doesn't it at least pique your curiosity, or make you think "hmmmm, that is weird, and the coincidence with what happened on 9/11 is kinda striking?"

 

Salmaan Pak has been pushed down everyone's throats by Treeman back in the day.

I do find an abandoned jet curious (except when I consider that all old jets have to go somewhere).

But that is a red herring, basso, and I believe you know it.

The real questions are, as you continue to link Iraq to Al Qaeda and/or 9/11:
(1) What do you know that the bipartisan 9/11 commission does not know?
(2) Could we have saved the 9/11 commission a lot of time and simply appointed you to figure this all out?

 

how's it a red herring, (or even fast company)? and the jet wasn't abandonded, it was a training facility. as to your questions, one assumes that the commission has access to documents that I don't, and that they have access to people and testimony that I do not, but where is the "credible evidence" that nothing came from these meetings? Did Sudan, Iran, and Afghanistan send a senior intelligence official to meet with bin Laden, as Iraq did? How many nations sent official representatives in response to requests by bin Laden for meetings?

either the commission has solid non-public evidence that nothing resulted from the meetings between Iraqi representatives and al Qaeda, or they are dismissing them for lack of solid evidence that something did result from the meetings. If they're dismissing the meetings out-of-hand, that's a major gap in their report, and should be addressed. If they have non-public evidence demonstrating that nothing resulted from the meetings, that information should be made public or the panel should say that they have classified information demonstrating that nothing resulted from Iraq's meetings with al Qaeda. There's been far too much public grandstanding by members of the commission to simply take their word for it.