Agreed...Bags will still get paid, the contract is guaranteed, the issue is who will pay it, the insurance co. or the Astros...I know he wants to go another round, but if he can't, he shouldn't...If he then chooses to go to the AL, then it'll be up to another team to take that risk, but it won't be for what he is getting in 2006.
Actually, I think if he plays *anywhere* in 2006 (or beyond) then the insurance pays *nothing*. So, the AL team and the Astros would probably be splitting the salary depending on the terms of the trade. I'm hoping that if McLane really is filing this thing it is a formality on the basis of beating the paperwork deadline. IOW, just b/c the paperwork is filed doesn't mean a decision is made (hopefullY). It seems to me that the decision is made the first day of ST: if he shows up, insurance doesn't pay. The claim filed this week or early next would then simply be denied.
I loved what Bags gave to the Astros and will stand and cheer when they retire his number...on opening day. Sad to say, but, stick a fork in him; he's done.
Pretty harsh, man. Drayton's "what have you done to be a champion today" stuff wears thin, I'll admit. He obviously cares about the bottomline more than wining the world series. But despite that, he puts a great team on the field year after year. And, on a personal note, I've only had one service complaint in all of my years of attendance during his ownership, and he took care of that promptly and personally. You couldn't do much better than Drayton, but you could do a lot worse.
If Bagwell plays this year, here's what you'll get for $15 million: - a pinch hitter for the late innings - someone who can't play the infield - lots of towering pop ups to infield or foul territory for easy outs - lots of "windmill" strikeouts where he swings so hard that he turns around completely - lots of strikeouts where he swings and misses at the slider low and away - about 5-7 homers
Ha! This is sooo true. He's good for drawing a few walks too, but I think that most pitchers will come right at him nowadays. Still, what you say doesn't matter. Most of Bag's defenders on this board think that he's earned the right to go out on his own terms, no matter what he's being paid or how he performs. As far as what he's paid, I don't care. If Drayton ends up saving that money, it'll go right into his pocket. But his performance is a huge issue. If he can barely throw and if he hits about as well as you and I assume, then he's hurting the team. Some would say that he's at least providing leadership, but leaders must lead by example, and if he's finished, but still on the roster, he won't be setting the example anymore. Anyway, I think it's all moot. The team wouldn't file an insurance claim if they thought they wouldn't get it. Why would they go through the publicity nightmare of trying to kick Bagwell off if there wasn't a great chance of success? They know that he's not medically fit to play right now, and they've probably asked around to see if any other team would sign him to DH - the answer was probably always "no". I doubt you'll ever see him play again, unless he's crazy enough to play in the indie leagues. You wish it could've ended better, but hey, life's not perfect.
can't we like threaten his family some way? there's gotta be some sensible alternative to this situation.
Yeah, everyone's clueless because we like to defend what the Astros are trying to accomplish. I guess the organization needs to hire you instead of all the clueless sheeps with the experience, because you would have paid Bagwell the extra 15 million dollars, resign Roger Clemens for 20 more even though he's not even sure if he wants to play, keep Lidge when Tejada's available (that one could be argued either way) even though the farm system have pitchers ready to contribute and the Astros seemingly logjammed their OF positions to prepare for that trade to bring in a bat like Miguel Tejada to MMP, and .... oh yeah, they fired a broadcaster that practically put down an ultimating. Well, baaa.... Let's see what they're trying to do. 1) The Astros made sure that they won't waste big money on a name that could prove to be disasterous to the team's financial status. Drayton might have money, but only those who spent their money wisely could end up being financially secured. All and all, Drayton wants to win, and he'll spend money when he has a good confidence that it's the right move. Believe it or not, it's still a business as well as a hobby, so if a player such as Burnett comes along and asks for 48-50 million, there's really no reason to pay such money when you can spend less on some players that could give the team Chemistry to make another run at the title. 2) Play-by-Play broadcasters. I would imagine that this was such a pain for you to swallow because Milo gave him so much props? He's improving only because he doesn't stutter as much, but I believe that Ashby played Milo's backing as a bargaining chip to improve his pay and status. He was not a great broadcaster, but not a terrible one. To become what he does, he put the Astros in an awkward position and probably would have required more money that was not the wisest to spend. Someone's going to come back saying how negligent that money is compared to the players, etc., but money still needs to be spent wisely in order for a team to be successful. 3) Lidge, Lane, and Everett for Tejada was the offer? Tejada in MMP could be a scary thought. Although the Astros would have to give up a potential OF starter and one of the best closers in the game, this might be one deal that the Astros would have to make. Lidge would require more and more money as the years pile on, and the Astros actually have a nice group of pitchers that are Major League ready. Getting Tejada to solidify the lineup that already includes Biggio, Berkman, Ensberg, and Preston would be great for the organization to make a couple more runs at something special. Basically, you're arguing for the sake of arguing. We're not getting people, Astros Management sucks. We're trying to trade Lidge (not even thinking about what we get back) and fans are happy to hear it, the fans must be sheep.... Pitching wins games, but hitting is necessary too. How frustrated were you to see the Astros with a great scoring opportunity late in a playoff game only to see Bobby Jenks strike out the side and secure the victory?? 4) Bagwell's situation is unfortunate, but the Astros will need to secure every dollar they can if the situation comes up. It's tough to see him struggle, but 15 million dollars is a lot of money, especially if the insurance covers that. You're already assuming that Drayton will pocket the money... Drayton has shown time and time again that he's spending money. In fact, the Astros has quite a payroll. Basically, we sign a star to a long contract and the contract turns bad because of an injury, and the Astros management gets blamed. We did not sign every star that's a free agent or are involved in every trade that was made, the Astros management are incompetent. The Astros offers to trade one of the team's fan favorite for someone that was a frontrunner for the MVP last year for most of the season, the Astros are stupid and doesn't know what they're doing. Finally, the Astros doesn't want to spend 35 million dollars on 2 players and change for an average broadcaster, we're all sheep.
i feel your frustration and i'm right there along with you. jeff bagwell has sacrificed a lot for this organization and has been the picture of professionalism. what do the astros do to reward him? try to push him out the door. people don't understand the astros OWE jeff the same LOYALTY he shoud them over his career. if he still wants to try to give it a go for next season the astros OWE him that opportunity. i've been a houston sports fan my whole life and with my father, it's like you can combine our ages together and that's how long we've supported houston pro sports teams. jeff bagwell is one of a handful of players that houston can call their own. he's a houston sports legend and one of my favorite ATHLETES EVER. he's done everything the right way during his career and people like that deserve to go out on a positive note and a hero. regardless of jeff's role next year, he would go out a hero to hear one last season of cheers at MMP. he DESERVES that as much as any athlete in my lifetime, the astros should at least give him that much.
As nice a story as it might be, the Astros bought Bagwell's loyalty by paying him market prices. It's not like he took a discount to play here - that's why he's getting paid $17,000,000 this year. Neither party owes the other anything at this point. Both should do what's in their best interests.
well, bags did take numerous pay cuts to bring in other players during the years and they threw the money from those paycuts onto the latter years of his contract. he DESERVES the money that is owed to him. i'm sorry, for just one season the guy wants to play, we are pushing him out? it doesn't make sense. i would like to think our organization would hold a special place for not only a player but a person like bagwell.
I think this is more myth than fact (it might be more fact with Biggio, although I'm not really sure). According to this: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/features/2002/scouting_reports/astros/ Bagwell signed a 5-yr, $85M contract extension back in 2002 - that's an average of $17MM per year. That's not a discount, no matter how you look at it. Also, this probably doesn't help his cause: http://houston.astros.mlb.com/NASAp...t_id=1294361&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou "The intent of this is to find out where Jeff stands right now," Purpura said. "He's refused to visit with the team doctors this offseason. Until a doctor sees him, we don't know where he stands."
All of this will end after the insurance company denies the claim and Jeff will claim his feeling were hurt, go out, try to play, and then retire. That is what the great Karnack told me. DD
But if he goes out there and can't hit and can't field, he won't go out as a hero. Do you really want to see Jeff Bagwell hit .098 for two months, miss ground balls, and exit the field after strikeouts under a chorus of boos? Because that possibility exists. And, I don't want to see it. As I said earlier, I am hoping that the filing of the claim is paperwork and that the deadline is actually much later. I heard Purpura on with the idiots this morning and he said some interesting things: 1) The report that if he plays at all at ST the insurance won't pay is not necessarily accurate! 2) The Astros are working hard at pursuing the insurance claim AND giving Bagwell every opportunity to prove he can play. I wish dude could come back and hit 25 dingers, but I'm afraid that's not going to happen.
I tend to agree....the guy has been a pinch hitter since last Aug or Sept, which, at last check, decsribes many marginal players in the NL
The Houston Astros feel that Jeff Bagwell will be unable to contribute a healthy season in 2006, and two doctors that have examined the first baseman have officially agreed. Now it's up to the insurance company to make its call. After receiving feedback from team medical director Dr. David Litner and orthopedic surgeon Dr. James Andrews, the Astros are moving forward with their plans to file an insurance claim on Bagwell, who was deemed by the doctors as a disabled player. The claim, according to club owner Drayton McLane, will be filed on Tuesday. This is not the earth-shattering news. What happens in the coming weeks could be, because the Astros essentially have one month to figure out a way to prevent Bagwell from heading to Kissimmee, Fla., on Feb. 23 when position players report to Spring Training. According to McLane, the club would like to give Bagwell the chance to prove he can play while the team trains in Florida. Whether or not he can do that, and still give the Astros a chance to collect on the insurance, is to be determined. "We would like for him to have the opportunity," McLane said. "Jeff has been the heartbeat of the Houston Astros for the last 10 to 12 years. He's been one of the best players in the history of the game. We'd like for him to have the opportunity. Jeff admits right now he's disabled at this time. He thinks he can be ready to play during Spring Training. It's undetermined whether we could allow him to do that." The sticking point is the deadline to file the claim, which is Jan. 31 -- a full two months before the regular season begins, and three weeks before Bagwell had planned to test his right shoulder in earnest. Lawyers are working diligently to read the fine print and determine the club's rights, the insurance company's role and Bagwell's chances. Throw in the public nature of this matter, and what we have is a whole bunch of confusion. Some answers are known. Others have yet to be revealed. "This is the first step in the process," general manager Tim Purpura said. "He's supposed to report Feb. 23. We have a month. What does all this mean? Jeff has stated he is going to report. We have to figure out where everything else stands." "In the original policy, (the insurance company) claims that he could not come to Spring Training," McLane said. "We're going to take all of the information we have and meet with them and see if there is any opportunity (for Bagwell to play in Spring Training). Jeff just wants the opportunity." Bagwell is owed $17 million this year, and he will receive it. It's a matter of who pays him, the Astros or the insurance company, which could pick up $15.6 million. Time is running out, at least from the Astros' standpoint. Bagwell's argument is that in order to determine if he can play, he has to do just that -- play. "The Astros want to know if I can play, and if I can't play, they want to try to collect on the insurance. That I have no problem with," he said during an interview with MLB.com radio. "In order for me to know if I can play baseball, I need to play baseball. No matter what I do in the offseason, that doesn't prepare me ... I've got to test myself, I've got to play every day. I've got to hit, then I've got to throw, play the field and do the same things I've done over the last five years. "I need baseball experience and that's Spring Training. If I can't play then I have no problem with them trying to collect insurance. I just want the opportunity to try to play. "When I get down to Spring Training, my arm starts to get used to it a little bit, have some cortisone, take a painkiller and then have adrenaline in a game, I can make it work. If I can do that and maintain my hitting, then I'm able to be a productive player." The Astros aren't so optimistic. Bagwell's shoulder has deteriorated over the past four years since his 2001 surgery to repair what appeared at the time to be a fixable torn labrum. What they found in the shoulder was far worse, and over the years, the shoulder has become degenerative and arthritic, and the cartilage is non-existent. He played on an acceptable level for the next three years, but last May, throwing became impossible and he went on the disabled list. A month later, Bagwell underwent an unconventional procedure to release the capsule surrounding the shoulder, and he sped up his rehab in order to return in September as a pinch-hitter. He has spent the entire offseason rehabbing the shoulder with the hopes that he could throw across the infield, and it's still undetermined whether he will be successful in that quest. Now, it appears he may not have the chance to find out. "It's a timing issue," said Barry Axelrod, Bagwell's agent. "Once he had surgery, he didn't gear up to be ready for Feb. 23 or even Spring Training. He was gearing up for Opening Day. Our hope, and I think everyone's hope, would be it he could have through Spring Training, and then a determination be made." The next step will likely involve a third set of doctors, hired by the insurance company to make the final call. That will happen after the Astros file the claim. "Most likely, they will get one or two doctors to examine Jeff and make a conclusion," McLane said. "They're not going to just take two physicians (Lintner, Andrews) who are highly respected. They're going to want people that represent them to look at the same information." And if these doctors agree with the first two, it appears the Astros are prepared to part ways with the greatest slugger in franchise history, and one of McLane's favorites. "This is the 14th year I've owned the team and we've had a lot of major, major issues," McLane said. "This is the most painful and difficult decision. Jeff and I have been very close personally. He and I have spent a lot of time together and as the Astros were emerging in '96 and '97, he was the heartbeat. It's just very sad." http://houston.astros.mlb.com/NASAp...t_id=1299666&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou Follow the link for audio of Bag's interview on mlb radio.
The Astros should just hire Chuck Norris and be done with it. Seriously, this sounds like the tagline for a movie.
It's sad that he might not finish his career here, but let's be realistic. Bags will never be the player that he once was. What I think is sad is players don't accept it and draw out their retirement until until they fade like a fart. I think Bagwell should hold a press conference and thank the Astro's and fans for support and then retire. We'll comemorate a day on his behalf.
