Agree with you completely. I wish a "tragedy" had happened in this case with another gun owner taking out this idiot.
Wouldn't it be stupid to carry that around as opposed to a handgun for self defense? I'm not even debating the merit of semi-automatic rifles for private ownership. I'm just stating from a practical standpoint, why would anyone ever wear that as a way to deter crime to himself, or others around him?
Plus a heavily armed stranger. I agree with Rimrocker's sentiment but the best thing to do in a situation like that where you see someone coming into a space armed is to try to get out of there or hide and called the police.
There is kind of a HUGE difference between a car, the primary purpose of which is to transport people from point A to point B, and a gun, the primary purpose of which is to injure or kill.
it's only a matter of time and they are just going to become even more tragic. as someone said previously, this country is insane.
The reason is that vast majority of people publicly carrying around weapons designed to kill massive amounts of people in a short period of time (while not at a shooting range or gun show or whatever) are doing so for a reason - either they are in the military/police and their job may at times require them to kill lots of people (which is why weapons like the AR 15 were invented), or they are more or less plannign for some situation in which the mass killing of people is imminent (drug warlords, mass shooters), at least that is the assumption that most people jump to. Basically the same rationale if you saw somebody with blocks of C4 strapped to their body. I doubt any of the teachers at Newtown had ever seen somebody walking around with a Bushmaster in public prior to last December or that they hesitated once they saw it. This was the correct instict I think that Law enforcement (and Me personally) find this to be a very useful social norm as it creates a bright-line rule around when to consider somebody dangerous or not. The gun nutter's insistence on blurring it doesn't really seem to serve much purpose. Other than of course, to say "Hey I'm a ****ing *******! Get away from me!" to everybody in their line of sight. But of course, since to Gun Nutters the 2nd Amendment is absolute, as opposed to the 1st amendment, with its well-recognized limitations - this is irrelevant. Trayvon Martin? There's probably hundreds of accidental shootings like this per year....of people carrying things peopel THOUGHT were guns - like Skittles You think they wouldn't have happened, had they been real guns?
FIFY again. What he did was wrong. He made innocent people fear for their lives just to prove a point. He may have broken no laws doing it, but it was an a$$#0le thing to do, especially in the wake of a series of mass shootings that have left a large portion of the country shaken. When a person walks into a grocery store armed with an AR-15, there's plenty of reason to fear he's there to shoot someone. Again, this guy's just an a$$#0le.
I may have missed it in the thread, but I'm curious what our resident anti-gun control posters would do if they were in a grocery store with their kids and saw someone coming into the store with weapons. We know that rimrocker would confront the person and justyanx would defend the perp's right to make a political statement, but, what about in the moment? I'm no hero and don't carry a gun so I would dial 911, make sure to get my family to safety, alert other shoppers and the management... What would you do? Shoot him? Confront him? Applaud him? Run? Take cover? Shout "from my cold dead hands?" Dial 911?
Run and hide. If I had a gun? Not sure if I'd run & hide, or confront. Regardless I'd have my gun in my hand at the ready. Instead I choose not to carry a weapon.
OK, so in the scenario I laid out... grocery store with family, see guy with AR-15 walking towards the door... here are the outcomes as I see them: 1. Do nothing, hope guy is just an *******, and guy is just an *******. 2. Do nothing and hope guy is just an *******. Turns out guy is a dirtbag and starts shooting. Those are the two do-nothing outcomes. In both cases, you are standing there with your family and allowing the guy with the gun to determine what happens. If it is #1, that is not good because you have experienced fear for your family's well-being and lost the freedom to expect to buy food without an overwhelming dread that it may be the last time you see your family. Not acceptable. Outcome #2 is obviously significantly worse. By doing nothing, you are either killed or you have questions the rest of your life about what you could have done. If I just let a guy walk into a store and kill my daughters, I honestly don't know how I could continue living. Regardless, doing nothing is not an option. We all know it is just a matter of time before someone pretends to be a carry nut and then opens up on a unsuspecting crowd. If I can do anything about it, it won't happen to my family. On to the other outcomes: 3. Confront guy, physical altercation favorable, guy is legal. I'm likely charged with battery. Usually a misdemeanor. Family and others safe. 4. Confront guy, physical altercation favorable, guy is a dirtbag. May still be charged, assuming the dirtbag has not written a suicide by cop note, since I confronted before he could really open up on people. Family and others safe. 5. Confront guy, physical alteration is not favorable, get beat up, guy is legal. Maybe charged, family and others safe. 6. Confront guy, physical altercation is not favorable, guy is legal, weapon is accidentally discharged. Likely charged, maybe shot, family and others safe. 7. Confront guy, physical altercation goes bad, dirtbag, get shot, wounded or killed. This sucks, but maybe the time he spent on me allows family to get to safety and helps others. 8. Call police and hide. The guy is steps away from the door. He's going to be in the store for a minute or more before the cops arrive. That's a long damn time. If it turns out he's just an *******, we're back to #1. If he's a dirtbag, we're back to #2. So, if you do nothing or only call the police, there is a benign outcome and a horrific outcome. If you take action, there is one horrific outcome and 4 outcomes where your family and others are likely safe. So, I'm thinking that if I have a reasonable chance of controlling the confrontation as he's walking in the door, that's my best choice as it gives me the largest possible number of favorable outcomes (family not dead). Now, if I have to walk 20 paces or more towards him after he's inside, it might be better to run and hide. I should say that this is not entirely theoretical, as one of the guys who walked around Portland the other day lives in my town and I have seen him walking the streets with his rifle slung over his shoulder. So far, he has only walked around on sidewalks and not attempted to enter a store or business. Still, it's not something you want to get used to and how do you keep track of who is good and who is bad when the lines are intentionally blurred? At this point you have to assume if they are not in uniform, they are bad. And really, there is absolutely no reason for AR-15s and similar pieces to be anywhere but a range or an empty field. They certainly shouldn't be carried around by people doing their daily business.
GTFO should be the number one priority whether you're packing or not. CCL instructor gave the following examples...... You're sitting there macking on a whataburger with cheese and jalapenos and some mindless ****er with a gun walks in and..... 1. Points it at the fat chick behind the counter. Can you shoot him? Nope, you're not the one in mortal danger at the moment. 2. Points it at a little girl standing there. Can you shoot him? Not really, but you would be chicken**** if you didn't. 3. Points it at you. Can you shoot him? Yes, terminate the b*stard.
I'd say 10 paces is more like it. Really depends on what is closer, the guy or the cover. A guy with an AR15 leaves little chance for a successful physical confrontation. You are now opening yourself to a George Zimmerman defense on the part of the the gunholder. It is unlikely that your family's first instinct would be to run away if you ran towards danger.
Thanks for the response. I'm curious what some of the hardliners have to say, but they are conspicuously quiet. Based on prior posting history, seems like several posters here would have obviously "taken him out" had this guy turned out to be a shooter, but since he was making a 2nd amendment "statement" they can't condemn him. TELLING
That is just a terrible analysis. Even accepting your self sacrifice position what you are missing is that this is crowded space and there is the possibility of your actions causing the injury and death of others. If this guy isn't out to shoot anyone but make some statement about the second Amendment you charging him could cause him to start trying to shoot you out of self-defense. Even if he doesn't hit you he still could likely injure others in the process. Even if you get to him and there is a struggle for the weapon as it discharges could hit others. If he is a homicidal maniac out to shoot you charging him without having your family under cover could actually put your family in more danger. Since you will charge from the direction of your family if he sees you charging he will aim for you and also your family behind you. As noted before bullets don't always just stay in someone's body whose shot and even if you are sacrificing your self your family could be hit by shots intended for you. As noted in Newtown some of the kids were shot through the body of teachers that tried to put themselves between the shooter and the kids. While it is very possible to take down an armed person unarmed (a common exercise done by police is to have someone attack a person with a holstered pistol and within 20' almost always the attacker can reach the person before they can draw and get a shot off) but that gets much more difficult if the gun is already drawn and aimed. Not saying there isn't a situation where physically confronting the guy wouldn't be the best policy but in most situations taking cover, getting out of there and calling 911 as soon as possible is the best policy. This isn't about bravery and heroism but about what is likely to keep, your family, you and others safe.
Also to add for those with CHL's exchanging fire with the guy carries huge risk. As shown in the ABC video with people trying to take down a shooter in a simulated classroom shooting there are many things that might not work. The other issue is in the panic of a crowded store there is a huge danger of hitting others in the exchange of gun fire. Like the situation above once you start shooting if you don't hit the shooter the shooter will start firing at you and since you are likely to be shooting from near your family that will also draw fire at your family.
