The Unbelievable Patrick Beverley

^-- this one's gone off his knockers. just like mcfail, trying so hard to inflate the value of a every other point guard on the team not named Lin

 

it would take Bev shooting 0-10 for mcfail to bench him. it takes just 3-6 shooting for Lin

 

You know rebounding, defense, and assists win you games right?

 

lol folks - we LOST! u are just shining a s hi t . Beverly is a great backup for Lin, but sorry bro, they tried it , we LOST.

 

No it wouldn't. All it takes is 15 points, 4 rebounds, 3 assists on 6-9 shooting in 21 minutes for McHale to sit Beverley's ass down in crunch time. And then have Lin come into the game lose the game in the final minutes.

If you actually cared about the Rockets and not just Jeremy Lin highlights, you might've remembered game that happened just 2 weeks ago.

 

We deserved to lose either way. Not because of what happened in the fourth quarter, if you get to the line 20 times more than your opponent and still lose you deserved it.

 

Beverley is the 3rd best rebounding PG in the league and the best offensive rebounding PG in the league.

Spoiler

 

Meh. PG rebounding depends on the team's tallers players being ****ty rebounders. Don't get me wrong, Beverly is great at what he does, but he gets most of his PT when Omer is not on the floor. He's better than than Douglas was in the same situation, but it's hard to compare across the league like that.

 

Wowwww based on that chart, 5 foot Barea is an elite rebounder!!!

 

The internet would explode...literally

 

That doesn't really explain why he leads the league in offensive rebound rate for a PG.

 

He is above average, but he has not played significant minutes in enough games to actually claim that title. Just like Greg Smith did not actually "lead the league" in PER when he was top 5 back in November.

 

Barely any games enough to make that % meaningful

He runs with a small ball unit that sucks at rebounding. Like the other guy said, when Asik is off the floor, Rockets rebounding is pitiful.

 

He'd make a good starter

 

And how many possessions would Beverley need to play to make the stat accurate?

I don't argue against that.

FIFY

 

Beverly actively goes after offensive rebounds. Most PGs actively goes back and play transition D on missed shots.

Secondly, Bev has about 300 mins played this season. Most other PGs on that list have close to if not more than 2000 mins. Rarely does it make sense to mix data so skewed. It doesn't in this case either. At the moment, Bev doesn't quality for the minutes/game leaderboard (which is play in 85% of your team's game or avg 24 mins/game).

For those curious, here's the list of top rebounding guards that do qualify for the mins/game leaderboard sorted by TRB%.

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padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">2209</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">2.3</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">19.0</td> <td align="right" class=" highlight_text" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">10.4</td> </tr> <tr class="" data-row="1" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" id=""> <td align="right" csk="2" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">2</td> <td align="left" class=" bold_text" csk="Allen,Tony" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick=""><a href="http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/allento01.html?utm_source=direct&amp;utm_medium=Share&amp;utm_campaign=ShareTool">Tony Allen</a></td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; 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padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">1941</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">4.7</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">12.8</td> <td align="right" class=" highlight_text" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">9.0</td> </tr> <tr class="" data-row="4" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" id=""> <td align="right" csk="5" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">5</td> <td align="left" class=" bold_text" csk="Smith,J.R." style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick=""><a href="http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/smithjr01.html?utm_source=direct&amp;utm_medium=Share&amp;utm_campaign=ShareTool">J.R. Smith</a></td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">1977</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">2.1</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">16.2</td> <td align="right" class=" highlight_text" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">8.9</td> </tr> <tr class="" data-row="5" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" id=""> <td align="right" csk="6" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">6</td> <td align="left" class=" bold_text" csk="Bledsoe,Eric" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick=""><a href="http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bledser01.html?utm_source=direct&amp;utm_medium=Share&amp;utm_campaign=ShareTool">Eric Bledsoe</a></td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; 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padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">2414</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">2.7</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">12.8</td> <td align="right" class=" highlight_text" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">7.9</td> </tr> <tr class="" data-row="10" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" id=""> <td align="right" csk="11" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">11</td> <td align="left" class=" bold_text" csk="Vasquez,Greivis" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick=""><a href="http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/v/vasqugr01.html?utm_source=direct&amp;utm_medium=Share&amp;utm_campaign=ShareTool">Greivis Vasquez</a></td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; 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padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">1725</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">2.2</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">12.5</td> <td align="right" class=" highlight_text" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">7.4</td> </tr> <tr class="" data-row="12" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" id=""> <td align="right" csk="13" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">13</td> <td align="left" class=" bold_text" csk="Gee,Alonzo" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick=""><a href="http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/geeal01.html?utm_source=direct&amp;utm_medium=Share&amp;utm_campaign=ShareTool">Alonzo Gee</a></td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">1950</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">3.3</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">11.2</td> <td align="right" class=" highlight_text" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">7.1</td> </tr> <tr class="" data-row="13" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" id=""> <td align="right" csk="14" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">14</td> <td align="left" class=" bold_text" csk="Harden,James" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick=""><a href="http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hardeja01.html?utm_source=direct&amp;utm_medium=Share&amp;utm_campaign=ShareTool">James Harden</a></td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">2346</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">2.7</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">11.5</td> <td align="right" class=" highlight_text" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">7.1</td> </tr> <tr class="" data-row="14" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" id=""> <td align="right" csk="15" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">15</td> <td align="left" class=" bold_text" csk="Ross,Terrence" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick=""><a href="http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rosste01.html?utm_source=direct&amp;utm_medium=Share&amp;utm_campaign=ShareTool">Terrence Ross</a></td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">918</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">3.3</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">11.0</td> <td align="right" class=" highlight_text" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">7.0</td> </tr> <tr class="" data-row="15" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" id=""> <td align="right" csk="16" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">16</td> <td align="left" class=" bold_text" csk="Allen,Ray" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick=""><a href="http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/allenra02.html?utm_source=direct&amp;utm_medium=Share&amp;utm_campaign=ShareTool">Ray Allen</a></td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">1498</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">2.8</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">10.7</td> <td align="right" class=" highlight_text" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">6.9</td> </tr> <tr class="" data-row="16" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" id=""> <td align="right" csk="17" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">17</td> <td align="left" class=" bold_text" csk="Mason,Roger" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick=""><a href="http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/masonro01.html?utm_source=direct&amp;utm_medium=Share&amp;utm_campaign=ShareTool">Roger Mason</a></td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">1014</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">0.8</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">12.7</td> <td align="right" class=" highlight_text" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">6.7</td> </tr> <tr class="" data-row="17" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" id=""> <td align="right" csk="18" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">18</td> <td align="left" class=" bold_text" csk="Beal,Bradley" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick=""><a href="http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bealbr01.html?utm_source=direct&amp;utm_medium=Share&amp;utm_campaign=ShareTool">Bradley Beal</a></td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">1627</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">2.6</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">10.4</td> <td align="right" class=" highlight_text" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">6.5</td> </tr> <tr class="" data-row="18" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" id=""> <td align="right" csk="19" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">19</td> <td align="left" class=" bold_text" csk="DeRozan,DeMar" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick=""><a href="http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/derozde01.html?utm_source=direct&amp;utm_medium=Share&amp;utm_campaign=ShareTool">DeMar DeRozan</a></td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">2347</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">1.9</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">11.5</td> <td align="right" class=" highlight_text" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">6.5</td> </tr> <tr class="" data-row="19" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" id=""> <td align="right" csk="20" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">20</td> <td align="left" class=" bold_text" csk="Miller,Andre" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick=""><a href="http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/millean02.html?utm_source=direct&amp;utm_medium=Share&amp;utm_campaign=ShareTool">Andre Miller</a></td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">1605</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">3.1</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">9.8</td> <td align="right" class=" highlight_text" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">6.5</td> </tr> </tbody> <tfoot></tfoot></table><div id="" style="font-size: 0.83em;" class="sr_share">Provided by <a href="http://www.sports-reference.com/sharing.shtml?utm_source=direct&amp;utm_medium=Share&amp;utm_campaign=ShareTool">Basketball-Reference.com</a>: <a href="http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&amp;match=single&amp;per_minute_base=36&amp;type=advanced&amp;lg_id=NBA&amp;is_playoffs=N&amp;year_min=2013&amp;year_max=2013&amp;franch_id=&amp;season_start=1&amp;season_end=-1&amp;age_min=0&amp;age_max=99&amp;height_min=0&amp;height_max=99&amp;birth_country_is=Y&amp;birth_country=&amp;is_active=&amp;is_hof=&amp;is_as=&amp;as_comp=gt&amp;as_val=&amp;pos_is_g=Y&amp;qual=mp_per_g_req&amp;c1stat=&amp;c1comp=gt&amp;c1val=&amp;c2stat=&amp;c2comp=gt&amp;c2val=&amp;c3stat=&amp;c3comp=gt&amp;c3val=&amp;c4stat=&amp;c4comp=gt&amp;c4val=&amp;c5stat=&amp;c5comp=gt&amp;c6mult=1.0&amp;c6stat=&amp;order_by=trb_pct&amp;utm_source=direct&amp;utm_medium=Share&amp;utm_campaign=ShareTool#stats">View Original Table</a><br>Generated 3/9/2013.</div> </div>

Full list

 

I completely disagree on this one. Beverley is better at harassing on the ball and maybe a better defender on a few pg's but I would say that Lin is easily the better defender.

 

beverly is foul prone. When you foul as much as he does your defense isn't good. The key to defense is defending without fouling.

 

That stat is meaningless without context
- how many games they've played
- what unit they play against
- what system they run
- who's on the unit he runs with

It's like the PTS PER48 stat people were using last year to argue Lin was better than all-star 1's, even though pre-Linsanity he only played 5-10 mins, usually garbage time.

Make Beverly run with Asik (#2 rebounder in the league) against starters, take away all his garbage time boards, he's dropping down that list. Felton is at the bottom because he runs with Tyson. Prigioni doesn't and is at the top. Nash is at the bottom because he runs with Dwight. OKC has no elite rebounders so Westbrook is at the top. For a guard the difference to shoot up and down that list is minimal - literally one or two rebounds a game cannibalized by your 5.

Not to knock Beverly, the guy is good. But that stat doesn't mean anything

 

How many possessions they played would be the meaningful information.

All of those things are very relevant.

Sure it does, you just feel it needs to be put in context. Also you didn't answer my above question.

That's not how stats work. Either a sample is large enough or it isn't. At some point having a bigger sample leads to diminishing returns stats-wise. I would contend Beverley's sample is definitely large enough. Also minutes is not the proper gauge; possessions is what you use. For example, Rebound rate is calculated by possessions.