The Rockets starting line-up plays better with D-Mo

I used to think Tjones could play SF....maybe he could defensively....

But offensively he'd be a terrible fit

 

This is silly. Like if DMo were playing alongside Harden and Howard his PER wouldn't go through the roof?

 

I agree more spacing would be better. But I don't think DMo is the guy to provide that. He takes jumpers, but doesn't make them, and he doesn't finish as well as Jones. If you look at the difference between playing Asik and Jones next to Howard last year, Jones and Howard are about as good at giving eachother space as two guys without a jumper can be. They'll dive under the basket, giving eachother enough time to finish whatever they're doing. Anyway yeah even a Millsap type who can hit a little over 1 out of 3 threes a game would be a big help.

 

MYTH: Motiejunas spreads the floor better.

FACT: Motie has never shot well from 3. In fact, he is significantly worse than Jones in that department.
If one does some research, one finds that when Jones is on the floor he enables his teammates to shoot at a higher clip than when he is off the floor.
The reverse is true of Motiejunas. When is on the floor, his teammates shoot worse, and when is off the floor, they shoot better.

Perhaps Motie has made some strides and will eclipse Jones this season? I could care less, I want ONE of them to be a 'solid' starting 4.

 

The ball moves better when Dmo is out there which is what we need with the starting unit.

 

Useless research. If one does some research, one finds that when Jones is on the floor, he is on the floor with Dwight and Harden around 90% of the time. He isn't enabling his teammates to shoot at a higher clip by his presence. It's Harden's and Dwight's presence that enables teammates to shoot at a higher percentage.

That's because the reverse is true of Harden and Dwight being off the floor for 90% of the time that DMo is on the floor. Neither DMo nor T_ones accounts for teammates shooting at a higher percentage by their presence on the floor. It should not be implied.

Me too.

 

You both made excellent points here. I would like to add this point. Do you think last seasons numbers matter right now? DMo looks like he worked on his game all summer and TJones looks like he regressed. I know it's just preseason, but the model of the preseason shows something.

 

...No.

 

For the point to be valid, the "teammates" have to be the same teammates, which is the whole point of the OP.

You did make a good point about Jones's 3pt percentage is better than DMo's. But Jones shot a lot less 3pt shots (per 48 min.) than DMo. Both guys cut down on their long ball frequency last season compared to their rookie year, but Jones was more obvious. Anyway, neither of them is a reliable floor stretcher. I have given up hope on any of them develop into one.

 

With regards to spacing , I dont think the PF necessarily has to be at the 3 point line to space the floor. According to basketball reference last season Dmo shot .471 from 3-10 and .600 from 10-16. Those tell me he has a decent midrange jumper and and just doesnt have consistent 3 point range yet. I think most people in this thread agree that based on ball movement alone, Dmo should be given a shot to play with the starters.

 

Being willing to take the 3 and hitting it sometimes can help stretch the floor. Not as much as a dead eye guy, but if you aren't even going to shoot the three then you definitely won't stretch the d.

 

Why should DMo be forgiven for shooting more at a horrible percentage?

And the teammates don't necessarily have to be exactly the same for the point to stand. If one is a 'floor spacer', then the (reasonable) expectation is that ones teammates might shoot better while one is on the floor, as compared to off.
Likewise, if Jones is so poor at spacing, one might expect someone else to feature as a PF in the 'top 20 most efficient 5-man units' for Houston last season. However nobody does. Not even D-Mo.

For the argument that 'DMo provides better spacing, he just hasn't had the opportunity to play alongside Harden/Howard', there is a logical necessity for him NOT to have played alongside them IF he doesn't feature in a 'top 20 lineup'

Again, I have no hatred for DMo, nor do I wish Jones to succeed at his expense. But I also don't feel the other way (ie, don't hate Jones and wish DMo to succeed at his expense).
Sure, Jones is frustrating at times, but I'll back him as the better player currently - especially when it comes to spacing - and by a significant margin (currently).

 

Also doesn't stretch it if they just leave you to shoot it.... in fact the opposite, it clogs the lane.

Perhaps that is why Jones has been more effective with spacing (thus far) - because he is also a threat to put the ball on the floor and approach the hoop?

 

I am with you about DMo's long ball shooting. He has no business parking outside the 3pt line until his 3pt percentage gets over 35%, for which I am not holding my breath. I have always believed that DMo should be featured as the low post offense whenever Howard is not on the floor.

Of course teammates matter. We are talking about the player's impact on his teammates' shooting percentage. You can't compare a guy whose "teammate" is Harden and a guy whose teammate is Garcia.

I am not sure on what you base your claim that Jones is better at spacing "by a significant margin" other than their 3pt percentages. Neither guy shoots enough amount and accuracy to be credited as a factor in spacing, IMO.

 

Better player by a significant margin! (and especially when it comes to spacing, since DMo doesn't move and can't shoot).

 

Not worried about the starters.

One of these days...Morey is going to have to realize you need capable and consistent bench players. Can't get by with just D-Leaguers and vet min guys.

 

which forward throws the best entry pass into the post? if we're looking for another Horry, the new guy better be Horry-esque in that dept.

 

Maybe you haven't heard. Morey wants to acquire a third "elite" player. Can't have a good bench without losing flexibility for trades and the possibility of acquiring our next "elite" player. Morey knows this team isn't a contender, but He has a plan to sign Durant in a couple of years. You just have to be patient. Don't worry about this year.

 

Get use to it people, T. Jones will be your starting Power Forward until he is traded. That's a big IF he is traded. Dmo hasn't done anything special to take the starting spot.

 

He might be struggling to get past Adrien for the backup spot..