1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

The people are speaking up....

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by OddsOn, Aug 4, 2010.

  1. OddsOn

    OddsOn Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2003
    Messages:
    2,555
    Likes Received:
    90
    Prop C passes overwhelmingly

    Missouri voters on Tuesday overwhelmingly rejected a federal mandate to purchase health insurance, rebuking President Barack Obama's administration and giving Republicans their first political victory in a national campaign to overturn the controversial health care law passed by Congress in March.

    "The citizens of the Show-Me State don't want Washington involved in their health care decisions," said Sen. Jane Cunningham, R-Chesterfield, one of the sponsors of the legislation that put Proposition C on the August ballot. She credited a grass-roots campaign involving Tea Party and patriot groups with building support for the anti-Washington proposition.

    With most of the vote counted, Proposition C was winning by a ratio of nearly 3 to 1. The measure, which seeks to exempt Missouri from the insurance mandate in the new health care law, includes a provision that would change how insurance companies that go out of business in Missouri liquidate their assets.

    "I've never seen anything like it," Cunningham said at a campaign gathering at a private home in Town and Country. "Citizens wanted their voices to be heard."

    About 30 Proposition C supporters whooped it up loudly at 9 p.m. when the returns flashed on the television showing the measure passing with more than 70 percent of the vote.

    "It's the vote heard 'round the world," said Dwight Janson, 53, from Glendale, clad in an American flag-patterned shirt. Janson said he went to one of the first Tea Party gatherings last year and hopped on the Proposition C bandwagon because he wanted to make a difference.

    "I was tired of sitting on the sidelines bouncing my gums," he said.

    Missouri was the first of four states to seek to opt out of the insurance purchase mandate portion of the health care law that had been pushed by Obama. And while many legal scholars question whether the vote will be binding, the overwhelming approval gives the national GOP momentum as Arizona, Florida and Oklahoma hold similar votes during midterm elections in November.

    "It's a big number," state Sen. Jim Lembke, R-Lemay, said of the vote. "I expected a victory, but not of this magnitude. This is going to propel the issue and several other issues about the proper role of the federal government."

    From almost the moment the Democratic-controlled Congress passed the health care law — which aims to increase the number of Americans with health insurance — Republicans have vowed to try to repeal it. Their primary argument is that they believe the federal government should not be involved in mandating health care decisions at the local level.

    While repeal might seem an unlikely strategy, the effort to send a message state by state that voters don't approve of being told they have to buy insurance could gain momentum.

    That's what Republicans are counting on at least, hoping that the Missouri vote will give the national movement momentum.

    "It's like a domino, and Missouri is the first one to fall," Cunningham said. "Missouri's vote will greatly influence the debate in the other states."

    Proposition C faced little organized opposition, although the Missouri Hospital Association mounted a mailer campaign opposing the ballot issue in the last couple of weeks. The hospital association, which spent more than $300,000 in the losing effort, said that without the new federal law, those who don't have insurance will cause health care providers and other taxpayers to have higher costs.

    "The only way to get to the cost problem in health care is to expand the insurance pool," said hospital association spokesman Dave Dillon. He said the hospital association didn't plan to sue over the law, but he expected it would be challenged.

    "I think there is going to be no shortage of people who want to use the courts to resolve this issue," he said.

    Democrats also generally opposed Proposition C, though they didn't spend much time or money talking about it.

    In the closing days of the campaign, many politicians 'sidled up" to Proposition C, Cunningham said, seeing the momentum the issue had gained.

    Among them was U.S. Rep. Roy Blunt, who won the Republican primary for U.S. Senate on Tuesday night. Late last week, Blunt announced his support of Proposition C.

    On Monday, Blunt said he hoped Missouri voters would send a "ballot box message" to the Obama's administration by overwhelmingly passing the measure.

    The question now is whether the administration will respond by suing the state to block passage of the law, much as it did in Arizona recently over illegal immigration.

    The issue in both is the same: When state laws conflict with federal laws, the courts have generally ruled in favor of the federal government, because of the Supremacy Clause of the U.S. Constitution.

    Richard Reuben, a law professor at the University of Missouri School of Law, said that if the federal government sues on the issue, it would likely win. Several other Missouri legal and political scholars agreed.

    But Cunningham is undaunted. She's got her own experts, and they're ready to do battle in court.

    "Constitutional experts disagree," she said. "There is substantial legal status to this thing."
     
  2. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    58,942
    Likes Received:
    36,502
    They might as well vote to legalize slavery - it has the same legal effect.
     
    1 person likes this.
  3. ChievousFTFace

    ChievousFTFace Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2010
    Messages:
    2,794
    Likes Received:
    560
    I'll wear my american clad outfit and show those Washington socialist marxist communist anti-white anti-american nazi anti-gun anti-radio anti-derp folks who the boss is!!!

    Healthcare is socialism!! We can't come up with anything better... but those insurance companies and hospitals haven't been fleecing people for decades.... oh wait.

    The people have been speaking up... they've been speaking up since a guy with the letter D behind his name came into office.
     
  4. finalsbound

    finalsbound Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2000
    Messages:
    12,328
    Likes Received:
    901
    amazing the lengths that people will go to vote against their best interests
     
    1 person likes this.
  5. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 1999
    Messages:
    61,728
    Likes Received:
    29,114
    So they rejecting Medicare for the whole state as well?

    Rocket River
     
  6. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 1999
    Messages:
    73,595
    Likes Received:
    19,943
    when they stop using Medicare benefits and cashing their social security checks, their arguments against socialism will carry more weight with me.
     
    2 people like this.
  7. Blake

    Blake Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2003
    Messages:
    9,872
    Likes Received:
    2,838
    So you health care reformists still think that this particular solution is a good idea?

    It's a freaking mess

    And for the record, I agree that something needed to be done to fix our broken system...but this bill wasn't it, IMHO
     
  8. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2002
    Messages:
    16,596
    Likes Received:
    494
    Do you believe that insurance companies should be able to discriminate against people with pre-existing conditions?
     
  9. finalsbound

    finalsbound Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2000
    Messages:
    12,328
    Likes Received:
    901
    republicans are not willing to work on a solid solution. i mean really...if this bill "wasn't it," what are some alternatives?

    it's a start...
     
  10. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2002
    Messages:
    14,304
    Likes Received:
    596
    No.

    Yep, and this was better than nothing. Which is what the party-of-no suggested.
     
  11. Blake

    Blake Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2003
    Messages:
    9,872
    Likes Received:
    2,838
    I guess you didn't read my last sentence, which is why I almost didn't post.

    NO, they don't. They are evil companies. I agree with most everyone that something needed to be done. Our system is broken. People need insurance that they can afford. We have way too many uninsured people and those with coverage are at the mercy of the carriers. I get that.

    It is possible to feel that way and still realize that this particular bill is a P.O.S. I like that washington is trying to do something about it, but as usual they screw it up, IMHO
     
    1 person likes this.
  12. rimrocker

    rimrocker Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 1999
    Messages:
    22,314
    Likes Received:
    8,170
    Amazing this symbolic proposition passed when the only competitive races were Republican primaries.
     
  13. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    54,215
    Likes Received:
    42,218
    I think if the people of Missouri or any state through a democractic process decide they want to opt out of the Federal Health Care Reform they should be able to. That said they should then also be excluded from Federal medical funding in the bill.
     
  14. Major

    Major Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 1999
    Messages:
    41,430
    Likes Received:
    15,861
    What specifically is a mess about it?
     
  15. Major

    Major Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 1999
    Messages:
    41,430
    Likes Received:
    15,861
    Don't forget that opposition groups didn't even spend any money to oppose it because they knew it had no actual legal standing.
     
  16. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    58,942
    Likes Received:
    36,502
    Oh please, why don't you explain to me your syllogism as to how you came to this particular conclusion. Because here is what it looks like from here:


    1. Congress considers health care bill modeled on previous GOP plans, facing strong partisan opposition - from GOP.

    2. GOP maintains unsuccessful 18-month campaign of disinformation & lies

    3. As a result of 2, Public knowledge of actual provisions of HCR bill is very low, disapproval is high, but approval rate of actual provisions is much higher.

    4. Health care reform bill passes - bill will be implemented over several years.

    5. Wingnuts in missouri win irrelevant referendum with no legal effect in protest vote in irregular election facing little to no opposition, prior to HCR bill going into effect.

    6. ?????

    7. Profits. And HCR will not accomplish its policy goals. Because of the above. For some reason.
     
  17. Depressio

    Depressio Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2009
    Messages:
    6,416
    Likes Received:
    366
    This made me laugh. How stereotypical can you get?
     
  18. juicystream

    juicystream Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2001
    Messages:
    29,297
    Likes Received:
    5,411
    Biggest problem? Mandating coverage gives the insurance companies millions of more customers, and will be receiving government subsidies. How is this going to control the cost? No government option is a failure.

    And its a pain in the ass for accountants, IRS, and everyone involved in tax/payroll.
     
  19. mc mark

    mc mark Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 1999
    Messages:
    26,195
    Likes Received:
    468
    Oh they're speaking up alright!
     
  20. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2002
    Messages:
    14,304
    Likes Received:
    596
    Completely agree - and this falls squarely to blame on Obama. He dealt the public option away in secret meetings with insurance and pharmaceutical companies.

    Transparency my ass.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now