The NBA’s most lopsided 1-way players: Offensive edition

You're somewhat contradicting yourself

Like you said, his off-ball defense is terrible. I'd also add that his transition defense and help defense are terrible. On defense, since we hide Harden on the opponent's worst scoring wing, wouldn't it be fair to say that he spends the vast majority of his time on off-ball defense?

If the vast majority of his defensive minutes are spent playing terrible defense, wouldn't that mean that overall, he's a terrible defender?

 

Why is Kobe in the team?

Yes, he was one of the worst defenders in the NBA last season - but that doesn't mean that he was good offensively. Just that he wasn't AS BAD....

The team selected wouldn't rack up points, ball would go to Kobe, he would jack up (and miss) a long 2.

 

lol mirza teltovic.

/thread

 

What is subjective about RPM?

Why does it "lack context" - if anything it was designed to provide context hence the "R". So called advanced stats all make an attempt to do this, and they do a pretty good job.

On the other side you have Charles Barkley, vine clips, and random Internet clowns like yourself citing "eye test"and angrily discarding contrary evidence with lame putdoens

Which of these 2 things is more "subjective"? The numbers or the bleaters?

 

I don't watch that many Portland/Cleveland/Toronto games so I thought you might be right. But then I went on youtube to watch Chris Paul's highlights from game 1 of the Portland/LAC series. He had 28 points and 11 assists. It was about 4.5 minutes long, and there were only two plays where Paul was guarded by someone other than Lillard.

In other words, you're full of ****.

 

You claimed that Lillard routinely guarded 2nd and 3rd tier players. Yet in a playoff game, he guarded Chris Paul when he could've been hidden on Redick or Mbah a Moute.

So yes, one playoff game is all that's needed to prove that you're an ignorant, lying dumbass.

What's your argument? That Stotts was thinking "hmm, supposedly, we've been hiding Lillard on defense for the season, and we made it to the 5th seed. But now that the playoffs have started, let's try a new game plan and have him guard Chris Paul!! After a season of guarding 2nd/3rd tier offensive players, Lillard should be well-rested!!! Lillard super stealth defense FTW!!!!"

 

In all honesty, you should just put me on ignore. Every time you reply to me, you make yourself look increasingly stupid.

For instance, look at your post. You've created a strawman argument which you're trying to argue against by cherry-picking data from a playoff series 4 years ago when Harden was on a different team playing a significantly different role.

The funny thing is, your strawman argument isn't even relevant. You made an incorrect statement about Lillard. I called you out on your lies. You then tried to defend your Lillard statement by citing a matchup between James Harden and Lebron James.

And apparently, I'm the idiot...

 

Which game and how much did he guard him?

It will be pretty easy to chart these plays and see if you're correct.

I wouldn't be surprised if many of those highlights you alluded to are the results of switches designed to exploit Lillards generosity on defense, and not indirect evidence of his prowess.

 

The lengths people go to in order to justify their pre-existing views is both hilarious and frightening. Hell, I'll play devil's advocate here. Maybe an eye test IS better for judging defense. If we are willing to through most logic out the window.

The problem is, your eye test is worthless. The fact that gigantic heaps of evidence suggest that your eye test is wrong, actually suggest that you just aren't good at evaluating defense. It's called confirmation bias. You are psychologically more likely to stick to your guns, even when you aren't right.

If multiple people with good reputations as analysts of talent come forward, and say "James Harden is definitely one of the worst defenders I've ever seen," then I would be more inclined to analyze why these stats may be misleading. Unfortunately, the only people that seem to hold this position are people that have been routinely wrong in the past, about almost everything basketball.

Let's just put it this way. If DD, holic, and what all agree with you, don't you think it warrants examining why you might be wrong? Since they have been historically wrong, more often than not? I'm not even asking you to throw away your eye test, worthless as it may be. I'm asking you to use these stats to challenge and/or support your existing views. If the opposition is "cherry picking" "subjective" stats, it should be easy for you to do the same.

The fact that some think their own eye test is more objective than a formula derived by basketball minds far greater than any of us, is sad. It takes away from valuable dicussion that both could, and should, be had on this board.

 

Come on man use your head. Coaches know where to exploit weaknesses, wouldnt be surprised if Lillard ended up on Paul by design off switching etc. there's been plenty of times this past season where inexplicably Harden was on Curry and got lit up (via switching and by design). But I think we all agree we try to hide Harden on the weakest offensive option.

See what I mean? Or not

 

Game 1 of the Portland/LAC series.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btGF4__rFC8

I just watched the first half of the video. There was no switching; in fact, there were several instances of Lillard picking up Paul as Paul walked the ball upcourt.

 

Your logic fails.

It's counter intuitive that Stotts would routinely hide Lillard on 2nd/3rd tier offensive players during the regular season and then assign him to guard Chris Paul during the playoffs.

 

Can you tell me in a tangible way not involving numbers what makes Harden a better defender than all those players?

Be specific. technique? savyness? high motor? Is he an intelligent defender? He knows where he needs to be? What makes him not a **** defender? No numbers... Let's discuss basketball.

 

http://stats.nba.com/game/#!/0041500172/playbyplay/#play9~
Here's the video box score for Game 2 - sadly hte game 1 one is offline - I tried to chart the plays where they were both on the floor

Griffin Lost Ball Turnover (P1.T1)
http://on.nba.com/1QtMXxj

Paul is being guarded by Maurice Harkless. Does not appear to be a switch.

Redick 3PT Jump Shot (3 PTS) (Paul 1 AST)
http://on.nba.com/1XiEG6W

Paul picked up at the top by Harkless again in the half court

Redick 21' Turnaround Jump Shot (5 PTS) (Paul 2 AST)
http://on.nba.com/1U8gEL2

Exact same as previous play - Paul picked up by Harkless. Are you sensing a pattern here?

Paul 6' Pullup Jump Shot (3 PTS) (Jordan 1 AST)
http://on.nba.com/1XiGU6d

Guess who was covering Paul - if you said "Mo Harkless" - you can pick up your Captain Obvious hat tomorrow AM at Will call.

Redick 26' 3PT Jump Shot (8 PTS) (Griffin 1 AST)
http://on.nba.com/1XiIk0u

Do I even need to tell you anymore who's guarding Paul? IF you're interested, Lilliard is indeed "hidden on...Mbah a Moute." - I will not insult you further by saying that guarding Redick is being "hidden" - considering it means you have to run off a billion screens and get your ass kicked.

MISS Paul 28' 3PT Running Pull-Up Jump Shot
http://on.nba.com/1XiIVPQ

Transition basket...so maybe somebody else...Nah, just fooling it was MO HARKLESS

MISS Redick 25' 3PT Jump Shot
http://on.nba.com/1XiJucu

It's pretty funny to see the exact same sets being run again and again and again - Harkless picks up Paul at the top, Lillard rests around hte baseline guarding the corner 3 from Mbah a Moute, ready to take the rebound.

MISS Paul 12' Jump Shot

Hey, at least Lillard gravitated towards Paul when Harkless was stuck behind a screener - so that's...something? Nah not really.

Paul 16' Turnaround Fadeaway (5 PTS)

It's NOT MO HARKLESS...yay, he gets a break, since he gets screened off - instead it's Al-Aminu on the switch, and Lillard swipes nonchalantly at the ball while....you guessed it, hanging in the corner doing nothing much else.

MISS Jordan 3' Alley Oop Layup

Transition - Plumlee gets stuck on Paul - Harkless makes a late effort to switch back , Lillard and Mbah-a-Moute trade recipes for Tuna casserole in the deep corner...again.

Mbah a Moute Illegal Screen Turnover (P1.T2)
http://on.nba.com/1YyNzrJ

Hey! Lilliard is actually INVOLVED IN A PLAY, selling hte contact on a baseline screen by Jordan and drawing the foul. He's not guarding Paul of course, one guess on who drew that THank-less task one MO time.

Griffin 3' Layup (2 PTS)
Harkless switch with al-Aminu. I am starting to yawn. Please make this eye test stop.

MISS Redick 19' Pullup Jump Shot
http://on.nba.com/1YyNZ14

Up to 3 Blazer defenders at least show on Paul in this sequence. Though redick takes the shot and the fourth defender is involved. Lillard is....not one of them, again drawing Mbah-a-Babysitter duty in the corner. He must be bored. I know I am.

Redick 27' 3PT Jump Shot (11 PTS) (Paul 3 AST)
http://on.nba.com/1YyO6Kg

Not amazing transition D by the blazers here - McCollum tries to take on Paul by pointing, Harden/Howard style, Redick is wide open, Lillard is doing...something on the free throw line.

SUB: Kaman FOR Harkless

And with that, I'm going to follow Mo's lead and am mercifully done with this exercise.

Damian Lillard guarded Chris Paul by design....approximately never, with first-choice lineups available.

Why would you do that? He's a lousy defender and he needs to be preserved for offense. Stotts made the right call here.

And by "guard Chris Paul during the playoffs" you mean "not guard Chris Paul" during the playoffs"

It's counterintuitive that you'd actually believe this to be true and expect to be taken seriously here. Call it the "brain test".