I should have picked d@mncuttino. That statment is the second most used while Im watching him run into traffic, throwing up a 20 footer while tripled team. Whats funny is I have never engineered a trade on these boards including Cuttino, but yet, becuase his style of play pisses me off, the simple minded feel I hate him. For those of you that need everything interpretted, Noone hates Cuttino, we simply want the guy to play smarter, team oriented basketball. This "you either love him like a son, or hate him like the devil" sides you guys try to enforce is what causes the most animosity on this board, let along your blood pressure. We can like the guy and yet criticize all we want. The minute you can deal with that, the minute everyones gets along. This isnt all or nothing. For you kiddies that still cant understand; Your parents might call you lazy, but that doesnt mean they hate you. Cuttino is part of the Rockets, and for that I support him. And like many of us here, WE feel Cuttino can offer more to the team. The second he can piece his game to a more well-rounded guard, I'll be the first to congratulate him. Okay, im through with this debate.
DCKid, go get a blood pressure check. Posts like that will cause you to have aneurysm before your 17.
ELITE 2-Guards: -------------------------------- 1. Bryant 2. Mcgrady 3. Carter 4. Iverson These guys get it done. Period. Disagree if you want, but if say LA were to ship bryant for mobley, don't tell me y'all wouldn't bite on it. SECOND TIER 2-Guards: 5. Ray Allen 6. Mobley 7. Finley 8. Stojakovic 9. Stackhouse 10. Pick one. ------------------------------ Ray Allen is as good a player as Vince Carter. And even if he wasn't I would still consider him a 1st tier guard. And to say that Mobley is a better guard as you did is insane. Ray Allen is a great player. Mobley wil never come close to being as good as him.
VC is the most overated guard there is. Toronto was better without him in the lineup. VC makes Mobes look like Michael Jordan on defense. I don't think Cat is a top tier guard but I think he can be. I think this will be his breakout year because I don't think any team can afford to double team him the way they did last year. There is no one in this league that can cover Mobes one on one.
I agree. Granted I think Carter is a damn good player but his high profile counts for more than his actual play in terms of public opinion. He is one of the best scorers in the league no doubt, but he needs to develop a more all around game and he would be up there with Tmac, maybe even better. I am a huge Ray ALlen fan. He might not be the best defender in the world, but he is decent. His shooting #'s are great and he is unslefish. Cuttino could develop into a better player but not a top tier guard and not an all star. He is a solid player that honestly reminds me of mad max to a degree.
you want to crunch some numbers: ray allen 21.8 ppg, 1.28 spg, 3.9 apg, 46% FG, 43% 3ptFG, 87% FT mobley 21.7 ppg, 1.47 spg, 2.5 apg, 43% FG, .398 3ptFG, 83% FT now did i say that mobley was better? you must have misread that part because i said that IF mobley improves on his shot control and work harder on passing and D, i would definitely say that mobley is on par with allen. you want to crunch some more numbers: and then you have to remind yourself: 'i'm getting virtually the same kind of player but one costs 12.3 million while the other one gets 4.9 million. is it worth 7 more million just to hit a higher 3pt %?' because seriously, that's the ONLY stat that mobley will never catch up on. so after some of that logic, i would say yes i WOULD pick mobley over ray allen. but until mobley improves on his other aspects, i have ray allen ahead of him....and on my list also.
Sorry if your little feelings were hurt. I hardly attacked you personally. i'm attacking your flawed method of misquoting your opponents to argue your point. If you percieve that as a personal attack, well too bad. Perception is in the eye of the beholder. Also, its pretty funny watching you, Clutch and, The Cat all arguing in this thread. There's not going to be much unbiased objectivity found amongst the three of you regarding Cuttino Mobley.
Cuttino could develop into a better player but not a top tier guard and not an all star. He is a solid player that honestly reminds me of mad max to a degree. I agree with the Mad Max accessment. There are far too many Cat haters out here. Cuttino is a guy who you know looks forward to big games and big situations ala Mad Max. He may have similar shot selection as Max but shoots a higher percentage. And also like Max he has tremendous heart. The one significant difference is that Maxwell was a legitimate lock-down defender. He had the ability to crotch down and get in his man's face at half court. But all in all a fair comparison. If Steve displayed the aggressive attitude to match Cuttino's then Steve's statline would be off the charts.
Honestly, my aplogies to you for hurting your feelings for pointing out Cuttino shortcomings. I had no idea you would fallout into a tantrun. Also , indirectly people are ranking Cuttino as a elite player? Why, becuase everything I mention things that keeps Cuttino from being a top tier player, the rest of his followiings CLAIM he already does. So no, noone is coming straight out and calling him to be in Jordan status, but yet at the same time, pretty much claim his game is flawless, or close to it. What other conclussion can one come to when you post flaws in his game, and everyone rebutts them? If he has no flaws, then he must be elite? So now that we established, he needs work, and you admit noone else feel he is a elite guard, where are we at now? Back to the orignal point where we go into what Cuttino needs to do to improve his game. So lets see if your going to actually get involved in a true debate, or will you take your alternative route.
Wow, this is the thred that wouldn't die.. Since so many people here seem to be able to crunch numbers so well, I was wondering if someone might be able to come up with some relevant data on this. 1) I agree that Cat, while being a better player than anyone ever thought he would be when he was drafted, DOES in fact have lots of room for improvement. The positive aspect of this is that he has historically shown both the desire and the ability to improve. Question: How many of Cat's turnovers last year led directly to points for the other team (ie fast break, ft's, or just a bucket by the other team, as opposed to a posession with no pts scored - think in terms of 4-pt-turnarounds, stuff like that) ? 2) I also agree that Cat will not be making the All-Defensive Team any time soon, but as someone once said, 'Sometimes your best defense is to outscore your opponent,'. I don't necessarily advocate that as the Rockets' official defensive philosophy, but if that's the hand we are dealt, then we should make the best of it. Question: What was Mobley's avg PPG vs the avg PPG of the opposing teams' starting shooting guards? 3) Seeing as how NBA basketball is not actually a one-on-one game, one player does not make all the difference, BUT one player CAN make a signifigant difference. Since this thread and all its many debates center on one player (Cat), exactly how much of an improvement would he have to make in order to signifigantly impact the Rockets' W/L record of last year? Question: What was the average PPG of the Rockets vs the avg PPG of their opponents? The point is, Cat is one of the 5 starters on the team, and he typically plays a lot of minutes (40+ per game). So, while he is obviously not solely responsible for whether this team wins or loses, he does in fact have a signifigant impact. Since he has shown that he can be expected to improve each year, the real question is how MUCH will he have to improve to help get this team over the hump, assuming everything else were to stay the same? (I know everything is not staying the same, but this thread is all about Cat, so..) How many more assists? How much higher shooting % ? How many fewer turnovers leading to pts on the other side? Things like that. Assuming we would never win every game, let's just shoot for 10 more wins. Taking last year's record, and the 10 closest losses, how much difference would Mobley himself HAVE to have made in order for those 10 losses to have been wins? And where would that have placed our record then? I ask because they seem like good questions, and I really don't know what the answers will be. I hope some of you number- cruncher fellows will be able to make something out of it. I am genuinely curious to know. (sorry so long) Nero
Heh, I bet you can't stand the fact that you don't truly know what side I'm on in this whole thing. Fact is, I like Cat. Mostly due to the fact that I saw him play a few games with R.I. and really liked his game. (Tyson Wheeler was my favorite on that team though). My problem is, no one is this thread is really being honest about Cuttino and evaluating him overall. You've either got the guys who emphasize his good traits or the guys who concentrate on his bad ones. Personally I think he has the game of an upper end 2 guard, but not the on-court maturity (something I think has been improving with experience, though slower than normal). The reason I came at you specifically was because of your unreasonable exaggerations of the pro-Cat people. It was ruining the debate. Instead of just arguing the points they presented you, you were creating a different foundation for your argument and thus taking away the good back and forth vibe of this thread. I think you have a lot of good points reguarding Cat. I just wish you would present those without including your interpretations of the views of your detractors. They've presented facts (and, I'll be honest, homerist opinions), if you can, refute them. As far as The Cat goes, I know how you guys feel. (His pro-Spurs threads made me want to puke! He probably deserved that "best non-Rocket fan" award ) He's intelligent and doggedly persistent, to the piont that he will make mistakes in his stubborness. When people find flaws in his arguments (like Clutch did) it makes this all the more fun to read. Anyway, no hard feelings, TRADECUTTINO. I'm just a humble poster who likes reading a good debate.
