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The Last Straw

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by TheresTheDagger, Jul 28, 2018.

  1. Buck Turgidson

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    Oh **** no, not in Texas. Abbott, Patrick, Paxton and the cabal running this state think local ordinances should be cast aside in favor of the power of the Central Government, but only when it meets their and their donors political needs.
     
  2. tallanvor

    tallanvor Contributing Member

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    Almost none of the plastic in the ocean comes from us. It's a pointless law. Like most environmental laws, it's just meant to make u feel good. Its not actually about helping the environment.

    https://www.acsh.org/news/2018/07/26/asia-africa-cause-90-plastic-pollution-worlds-oceans-13233

    https://nypost.com/2018/07/02/banning-plastic-straws-is-more-scam-than-science/
     
    #22 tallanvor, Jul 28, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2018
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  3. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost be kind. be brave.
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    Those articles are terrible and very unconvincing.

    The first one basically shakes out like this:

    1) Litter is the problem, not plastic -- This is an absurd premise that ignores reality. Like arguing we shouldn't engineer safer cars because it's dangerous drivers who are the real problem. Also ignores the practical shortcomings of recycling.

    2) Other countries are polluting more, so why bother. -- Simple defeatist nonsense.

    3) Other industries or textiles are polluting more, so why bother. -- More defeatist nonsense.

    These are not worthwhile arguments. Like, at all.

    And that Post editorial is really reaching and not backing up anything it is saying. Here is the one part of the entire article that actually tries to make a claim, yet somehow manages to fall flat on its face.

    Notably, those supposedly more-eco-friendly straws made from plant-based materials also take forever to decompose. If they end up in the ocean, they’re just as likely to harm sea creatures as plastic ones. And making paper straws creates more air pollution — plus you often have to use more than one, after the first gets too soggy.

    Notice how it basically contradicted itself in a space of two sentences? "Paper straws don't break down either! And not to mention they get too soggy so you have to use another one." And claiming that paper "makes more air pollution" is taking a complex issue and looking at it through a singular lens. Plastics are easier to manufacture/distribute, but they don't break down, and paper products necessitate re-forestation, which is a plus. Ideally you want to re-use all products, but especially plastic ones.
     
  4. Buck Turgidson

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    Saltwater Brewery Creates Edible Six-Pack Rings

    These six-pack rings are 100 percent biodegradable and edible—constructed of barley and wheat ribbons from the brewing process. This packaging can actually be safely eaten by animals that may come into contact with the refuse.

    https://www.craftbeer.com/editors-picks/saltwater-brewery-creates-edible-six-pack-rings

    Also, we need to start growing hemp. There's literally zero downside, except to the Reefer Madness Helen Lovejoy crowd still clutching their pearls and living in the '50s.
     
    B-Bob likes this.
  5. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    The technology can be adopted in other countries. That happens often. America surprisingly still is followed in the world despite having a Putin Puppet of a POTUS
     
  6. tallanvor

    tallanvor Contributing Member

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    The article is making the point that if your country has the means to properly dispose of straws then there is no reason to ban straws. Its only poor countries who don't have the means where this is an issue. We don't dump our straws in the ocean so why would we ban straws to protect the ocean? Are you of the opinion that banning straws in the US will have any affect on the environment? There is zero science to back that claim.

    If you want to solve the plastic in the oceans problem you have to address 3rd world countries.
    https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2018/06/plastic-planet-waste-pollution-trash-crisis/

    Like I said, just a law to make people feel moral and better about themselves at the expense of the disabled. It doesn't actually help anything at all.
     
    #26 tallanvor, Jul 28, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2018
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  7. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    Safer cars cost a lot money. You could reduce deaths by making drivers better. You could make drivers better by increasing testing and training standards. This would cost less than the billions we spend on safer cars and freeways.

    It isn't an absurd argument. finland and great britain have far fewer traffic fatalities than us and far stricter license. keep america beautiful (crying indian guy) made littering socially unacceptable put "litterbug" in the social lexicon, and changed behavior. another campaign like that is probably needed.

    heart and minds >>>>>>bans
     
  8. juicystream

    juicystream Contributing Member

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    Don't see the problem. Jail time for habitual restaurant violators? What is so bad about that being on the table? This isn't jail time for individual straw users.
     
  9. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost be kind. be brave.
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    [​IMG]

    also; safer cars = money well spent imo.
     
  10. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    Because when you have Tom Brady talking about how bad straws are, you lose an the messege when people make fun of you, and opportunity to launch a national campaign against littering with him and others. In general, bans (also plastic bag fees) make people angry and defiant.

    With cars it is because there is no political will and it is much easier to make cars cost more for the working class.
     
  11. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost be kind. be brave.
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    I don't think it's controversial to suggest that switching from single-use plastics to biodegradable materials is better for the environment.

    But here we are, apparently.
     
  12. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    Don't you dare takeaway their single-use plastics!
     
  13. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost be kind. be brave.
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    Going to have to agree to disagree. Chewing gum is not an argument against walking, as it were.

    Also, angry and defiant? Over 5 cents? Mmk.

    I get how that cost hits the poor hardest (along with, you know, basically every tax we have), but I'm not convinced we shouldn't try to discourage the adoption of single use plastic materials whereever possible.
     
  14. tallanvor

    tallanvor Contributing Member

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    'suggest'? is that what you call forcing people?

    Just out of curiosity, do you know how much energy it takes to make those biodegradable materials? where is that energy coming from?
     
  15. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    Leadership. To ask others to do that you don't do yourself is so Trump.
     
  16. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost be kind. be brave.
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    Herp de derp.
     
  17. tallanvor

    tallanvor Contributing Member

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    Leadership would be showing people how to properly dispose of plastic. Which we do.

    and you are supporting forcing people. You still haven't shown your science that banning straws in the US would do anything.
     
  18. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    Not using the plastic in the first place and promoting that is far more preferable.
     
  19. tallanvor

    tallanvor Contributing Member

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    plastic is far cheaper and makes a better straw. better for the poor. Why do you think third world countries use it.

    No. The better solution is not to stop using plastic. Unless you are all for screwing over the poor and making them pay more for lots of materials.
     
  20. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost be kind. be brave.
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    I didn't think we'd have to go back and start talking about the purpose of laws (discouraging undesirable behaviors/practices) over this.
     
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