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The future of the EU and the UK, post-Brexit

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by MojoMan, Dec 4, 2016.

  1. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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    Just referring you to what I was referencing.
     
  2. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    Seems boris is trump-like in ignoring laws...

     
  3. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon and SNP leader in Parliament Ian Blackford are apparently now willing to support a no confidence vote against Boris Johnson, with a view towards electing Jeremy Corbyn as the Prime Minister of the UK, for the purpose of definitely blocking Brexit and then moving quickly to a general election, if the article below is to be believed.

    Sturgeon in pact to make Corbyn PM as early as NEXT WEEK ‘whether people like it or not’

    SNP chiefs believe Boris Johnson needs to be ousted as Prime Minister in order to take a no deal Brexit completely off the table. Nicola Sturgeon, Scotland’s first minister, and Ian Blackford, leader of the SNP in Westminster, are willing to go to such lengths as to hold a vote of no confidence and install Jeremy Corbyn as a caretaker prime minister, according to ITV news. They hope such a move would prevent a no deal Brexit and ensure a general election is held after October 31.

    A source close to the SNP leadership told ITV: “It is increasingly clear that we will have to install a new prime minister via a vote of no confidence so that we can request a delay to Brexit and hold an election. The convention is absolutely clear that it is the leader of the opposition - in this case, Jeremy Corbyn - who should become prime minister in those circumstances. Trying to find a compromise candidate, a national unity candidate, is too complicated, especially in the time we have. Whether people like it or not, the temporary prime minister has to be Corbyn.”​

    This should hardly come as a shocking development, as this was Corbyn's goal when he came out in support of a second Scottish independence referendum last month. So it appears that strategy is bearing fruit.

    However, even if the SNP supports this, this is still not definitively happening, as there are quite a few members of the Labour Party - the party that Jeremy Corbyn is the leader of - who have come out publicly and said that they would not support this. And so has the leader of the Lib Dems.

    All that being said, this is their best and soundest possible strategy for blocking Brexit, albeit temporarily.

    I wonder what this would do for the prospects of the Tories if the next general election was conducted with Jeremy Corbyn as the incumbent Prime Minister? If this plan is somehow achieved, we might be getting ready to find out.
     
  4. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Here is the process for a no confidence vote in the UK Parliament, which is the only certain way for the Remainers to block Brexit. If they can muster a majority in Parliament, they can take over the government.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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  6. malakas

    malakas Member

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    Johnson almost confirmed today that if there was a no confidence vote, the Tories themselves will support it. So it will not fail.

    Labour has to have guarantees that it can form a national unity government if they are to take this ultimate step.

    It's not certain who it will benefit more in the next general election if Corbyn is made interim PM. If he manages to rule the country and get the Brexit extension without any issues, it will encourage many Tory voters who are scared of his left wing politics, to vote for him.

    The important thing is the shift of the DUP. With the illegal proroguation they returned home from Westminster and realised that there won't be anyone who will vote for them anymore, and not only that but that the current poll for the first time is in favour of an Ireland unification.

    What goes around comes around. Now they have to face the consequences of their policies and they are desperately making last minute more and more concessions.

    From we won't accept anything last month, to we will accept a agricultural custom union last week to we will accept a time limited backstop today.

    By next week they may accept everything but it's too late now. Why would anyone in Northern Ireland trust these crazies anymore.
     
  7. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    The BBC is reporting that there will apparently not be a no confidence vote this week. So, it appears you are correct that the Lib Dems and probably others are still not ready to support Jeremy Corbyn as the new Prime Minister of the United Kingdom. Go figure.

    Brexit: Opposition parties 'will not yet push for confidence vote'

    Opposition parties will not call for a vote of no confidence in the government to topple the PM this week.

    Speaking after cross-party talks, Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn said he will back a motion "at a point we can win it and take no-deal off the table". The SNP's Ian Blackford said his party was keen to push for an early no confidence vote but wanted to take the other parties with them.

    Green Caroline Lucas said the parties were "united about stopping no-deal".​

    If there was a person who had enough support to replace Boris Johnson as Prime Minister, they would be moving to a vote as fast as they could.

    And while the parties are willing to present themselves as opposing "No deal," many of them are not supporting of permanently blocking or overturning Brexit. Which is what they must support to permanently stop Brexit from happening.
     
  8. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    The Shadow Chancellor, John McDonnell (Labour) has stated today that any interim government MUST be headed by Opposition Leader Jeremy Corbyn (Labour).

    At the same time, Lib Dem leader Joe Swinson stated that her party will NOT back an interim government headed by Jeremy Corbyn. So, the deadlock continues. If one of these two groups is not willing to back down, then they will not be able to successfully implement a strategy to displace Boris Johnson without an election first. And probably not even then, as the Tory's appear to be poised to win that contest.

    Corbyn must head any interim government - John McDonnell

    Labour has rejected the idea of a "government of national unity" - headed by a figure like Ken Clarke or Margaret Beckett - to prevent a no-deal Brexit. Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell said any interim government - formed after the removal of Boris Johnson - must be headed by Jeremy Corbyn. He said Labour was "unlikely" to table a no confidence vote in the government until after 17 October's EU summit.

    The Lib Dems have, meanwhile, said they will not back an interim government headed by Mr Corbyn, with leader Jo Swinson saying the Labour leader had to make clear who else he would support to temporarily take charge. She has said Mr Corbyn "simply does not have the numbers" to command a majority in the Commons, referencing the 21 MPs expelled from the Conservative Party and the five members of the Independent Group for Change.

    But asked whether an interim government could be led by anyone other than Mr Corbyn, the official leader of the opposition, Mr McDonnell said: "No, the rules are the rules." He said Ms Swinson might change her mind on the issue, adding: "I'm a great believer in the powers of conversion."​

    McDonnell also stated that Corbyn would be "unlikely" to offer a no confidence motion until at after the October 17 EU Summit, at the earliest. Of course this indicates that they do not currently have the support, or they would offer it sooner.
     
  9. malakas

    malakas Member

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    The UK's final offer to the EU has been leaked, and will be officially offered this week.
    It's the "2 borders for 4 years" plan.

    Only regulatory aggreement on agriculture :Will be Rejected
    Time limited to 4 years: Will be Rejected
    The Northern Irish parliament, will have a veto vote : lol Will be Rejected.

    There's no need to analyse much, all parts of this offer have been repeatedly and separately rejected in the last 3 years.
    Putting them all together doesn't change anything.

    It's either no deal, or extension.
    There can't be a deal with such ridiculous offer. We can put these delusions to bed now.
     
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  10. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    LOL... johnson does seem trump-like...

     
  11. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Boris Johnson has submitted his plan for handling North Ireland to the EU. Now they are on the path to something that is actually workable and that is not intentionally designed to sabotage the entire Brexit process. Of course those people who are fundamentally opposed to Brexit will object to any proposal that is actually workable.

    Brexit: New UK plan for Northern Ireland to stay in single market

    The plan, outlined in a seven-page document, would see Northern Ireland stay in the European single market for goods, but leave the customs union - resulting in new customs checks. The Northern Ireland Assembly would get to approve the arrangements first and vote every four years on keeping them.

    The EU will analyse these proposals and probably keep the door open to further talks with UK so there's no risk of being blamed for a no-deal Brexit. They will likely welcome the massive increase in regulatory alignment proposed for Northern Ireland - which a few days ago was only going to cover food and agriculture and now covers virtually all goods. The UK will also allow the European Court of Justice to administer EU law in Northern Ireland.

    Northern Ireland's Democratic Unionist Party - long-term critics of the backstop and partners of the Conservative Party in Parliament - gave a cautious welcome to the proposals. In a statement, the DUP said the plan "demonstrates commitment to working with our neighbours" in Ireland and respected "the integrity of Northern Ireland's economic and constitutional position within the United Kingdom".​
     
  12. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Boris Johnson is preparing to Prorogue Parliament again, this time starting next Tuesday, October 8. Parliament will then be out the last three days of the week, before the Queen's speech on Monday, October 14.

    Boris Johnson to suspend Parliament on Tuesday ahead of October 14 Queen's Speech

    Boris Johnson will suspend Parliament from Tuesday evening to hold a Queen's Speech on October 14, it has been confirmed. A Number 10 spokesman said: "The Prime Minister has been consistently clear that he wants to set out a fresh legislative programme in a Queen’s Speech.

    He therefore intends to request that the current session of Parliament be prorogued from the evening of Tuesday 8 October, with a Queen’s Speech on Monday 14 October.​
     
  13. malakas

    malakas Member

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    as expected the EU said that the Johnson proposal is not even remotely acceptable and is a last minute rushed pastiche of already rejected proposals.

    The Northern Irish police chief constable also stated that he and his men refuse to guard the border and do the custom checks and they will go to the courts to defend their rights if need be.
    So the UK will have to send the army as in the Troubles.
     
  14. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Ok, this is not Brexit or EU related, but it is related to the Labour party and their politics, which will play a role in how all that plays out.

    The local chapter of Jewish Labour MP Louise Ellman have tabled a motion of no confidence in her, which they have scheduled for debate on the eve of Yom Kippur, the holiest day of the Jewish year. It is yet another anti-Semitism row for the Labour party. Even if they hate Jews, would it not be smarter to pretend some level of tolerance towards them? This looks terrible for these people.

    Jeremy Corbyn urged to intervene after Labour members table confidence vote in Jewish MP on eve of Yom Kippur

    Jeremy Corbyn is facing a fresh anti-Semitism row after hard-left party members tabled a confidence vote against a Jewish Labour MP on the eve of Yom Kippur, the holiest day in the Jewish calendar. Senior Labour figures have lined up to condemn the bid to oust Dame Louise Ellman, the chairwoman of Labour Friends of Israel, by activists in her Liverpool Riverside party.

    Mr Corbyn has now been told to step in and suspend the local branch, after plans were put forward to debate a motion of no confidence on Tuesday evening next week. The timing of the debate, between 8pm and 9pm, falls on Kol Nidre, when British Jews will be attending synagogue to usher in the holiest day of the year.​

    MP Louise Ellman certainly should not be beyond accountability for any legitimate misconduct just because she is Jewish, if there is any. I am not aware of all the details, so I wanted to say that.

    That being said, the timing of this debate certainly leaves the impression that her jJewishness is an important factor in their considerations, or at a minimum, that they are intent on being disrespectful towards her in a way that is intended to be offensive to her from the perspective of her faith.

    What is the matter with these people? Are they stupid?
     
  15. Rashmon

    Rashmon Contributing Member

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    bump...

    Brexit: Boris Johnson will send extension letter

    Boris Johnson will send a letter to the EU asking for a Brexit delay if no deal is agreed by 19 October, according to government papers submitted to a Scottish court.

    [click link for article]
     
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  16. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    We will see if he actually does send a letter. But the goal is not whether he sends a letter or not. It is whether the UK leaves the EU or not.

    Even if there is another delay, that is not the end of Brexit. And if the Tories win the next general election as expected, which is widely expected before the end of the year - this time with all of the Tory Remainer riff-raff no longer in the party or on the ballot - then the UK Parliament should be able to shepherd through a real Brexit.

    And THAT is the ultimate objective here.
     
  17. dmoneybangbang

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    Tik tok. If true, another blow to the entitled populism.
     
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  18. malakas

    malakas Member

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    What is the problem here exactly? Is Yom Kippur a public holiday in the UK?
    No? Then there is no issue.

    What about all the millions of poor people that have to show up to work in their religious holidays and they are paid peanuts, in contrast with an MP that determines the future of the land and is compensated thousands of pounds every month? And she can't show up?
    I didn't see any christian taxi driver or any muslim 24/7 worker make the headlines whining because he had to work on christmas.or the ramadan.
     
  19. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    It appears that Boris Johnson may be poised to sabotage the workings of the EU if the UK is forced into a another Brexit delay.

    Boris Johnson to sabotage EU if forced to delay Brexit

    Boris Johnson would veto the EU’s seven-year budget and send a Eurosceptic commissioner to Brussels to “disrupt” the bloc’s workings if he were forced into a Brexit delay, under plans being discussed by ministers.

    Senior Government figures are considering a series of proposals to “sabotage” the EU’s structures if Brussels refuses to agree a new deal or let Mr Johnson deliver Brexit without one. Two Cabinet ministers told this newspaper that they were among those backing a more “aggressive” approach towards Brussels.​

    This looks like a no brainer. He should certainly do this. These people have been conspiring together to undermine the will of the people and they have caused serious damage to the long developed sense of trust in the UK's democracy. Why should Boris Johnson or the UK show any respect or consideration to the damage that vetoing the EU's budget, which requires unanimity, or other similarly disruptive steps that would clearly be intended to cause the EU harm?

    Screw these people. Boris should do it. And if they do not want that and many other such internal afflictions to occur, then the answer is obvious. Vote to require the UK to leave on October 31, with no further delays. Case closed.
     
  20. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Boris Johnson is quintupling down (or maybe more than that, I have lost count) on his insistence that the UK will leave the EU on October 31, as he wrote in two different articles published today in two different UK newspapers.

    Johnson: UK ‘packing our bags and walking out’ in 25 days

    The United Kingdom will be “packing our bags and walking out” of the EU in 25 days, Boris Johnson wrote in two British newspapers. Writing in the Sun and the Daily Express, the British prime minister reiterated his stance that the U.K. will be leaving the bloc on October 31 — and sought to place the blame squarely on Brussels if there’s a no-deal Brexit.

    He stood by new proposals presented to Brussels earlier this week that the British government says could replace the Irish backstop negotiated during Theresa May's tenure, describing them as “a practical compromise.”

    “After decades of campaigning, three years of arguments and seemingly endless months of pointless delay, it is now just 25 days until the United Kingdom’s membership of the European Union comes to an end. We will be packing our bags and walking out on October 31. The only question is whether Brussels cheerily waves us off with a mutually agreeable deal, or whether we will be forced to head off on our own,” he wrote.​

    Not a lot of ambiguity in this pronouncement, with 25 days left to go until October 31. Tick tock.
     

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