The ONLY way that the Tories win the next election is to complete a real Brexit first. Whether that be with or without a deal, does not matter. Achieving a real Brexit is an existential issue for the Tories. Without it, they will not stay in power.
Where did you get this news? When there are senior Labour and Tory MPs saying the opposite to the media??? Also Labour hasnt embraced a second referendum officially at all. Corbyn wants Brexit. With a deal.
This is not in dispute, as far as I am aware. I posted articles about Jeremy Corbyn's official embrace of Remain and a second referendum and what the political ramifications of that are a few week back. I am not going to repost all that stuff again.
Why dont you post a link? Corbyn flirted with a second referendum and remain the next day after the EU elections but after that he has continued on his due course of flirting with everything and in reality supporting nothing. It lead to a frontbencher quitting in protest and public accusations that Corbyn's adviser team are Brexiters that are alienating the remainer backbenchers MPs. I am sorry but you are very mislead. Corbyn is the leader of the Labour party and has the power to form the official line and at this point it's definitely not a second referendum.
It's too late for that now. There is just no possible way for this parliament to continue to exist with no deal Brexit getting delivered. If he had a bigger majority that would be different but he has inherited the current situation and he has made things worse. The only reason that Labour didnt call a no confidence vote before the summer recess, was wisely so, to let the "Johnson boost" pass and let him polarise the situation as expected to no deal. A no deal Brexit cannot be delivered under this government, and a deal Brexit hasn't even begun to be negotiated. So there will be elections without a Brexit.
I did post links and quotes from articles. I am not going to repost that stuff again. It is within the last few pages of this thread. Corbyn has sealed the deal. Labour is now a Remain party that openly endorses a second referendum. Nobody in the UK that follows this stuff is confused about this any more. It is your positions on this that are without support in this thread. You post links.
There will probably be elections either way. But the Tories win if the elections are held after a real Brexit, and they will lose in spectacular fashion if these elections are held after another delay. So Boris Johnson and the Tories are focused on a real Brexit by October 31, or bust. The Parliament is only back at the beginning of September for about a week, then they leave again until early October for their party conferences. Maybe there is still another rabbit to be pulled out of someone's hat that nobody is discussing publicly, but the only obvious way to stop this now appears to be a successful no confidence motion called immediately when Parliament returns, and then a number of unlikely events still have to occur in order to stop this train before October 31. The thing is, they cannot wait to pursue a no confidence motion, if that is what they plan to try and do. They have to do it on September 3, or it is going to be too late.
It's not my position lol. It's reality. The web is full of articles of remainers, pointing fingers at him for not having a clear stance on Brexit and a 2nd referendum. Here is a recent one for example: https://www.theguardian.com/comment...oris-johnson-progressive-pact-greens-lib-dems " The first thing Labour’s frontbench has to do is to commit – immediately and unequivocally – to fight any general election called before Britain leaves the EU on a remain and transform ticket. The possibility, still being spun by Jeremy Corbyn’s advisers, that Labour would go into that election equivocal on the issue of Brexit makes my stomach churn. It defies not only principle but also electoral calculation: why bring down a government over Brexit if you won’t tell people what your alternative is?" Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour party haven't embraced a 2nd referendum let alone Remain. What they can only agree on, is that they don't want no deal.
LOL stop being delusional. People won't vote for someone who instead of giving the people the option to vote on general election, because of a ridiculous loophole he made no deal happen. After a PM has lost a no confidence vote, he can't make decisions on his own. In the first place a PM can't make decisions on his own on a good day, who do you think he is? A president? The executional authority of a prime minister is much more limited, especially if he's a deposed figurehead. There will be hundreds of people bringing it to court if it comes to this, saying it is unconstitutional. Johnson has an excuse to his voters. He couldn't make it happen under this parliament because he was only in power for 2 months and was ousted before 31 October. Anyway this discussion is pointless. Stop being delusional. There will be a no confidence vote on 3 or 4 September unless Johnson dares to call the elections on his own. There will be a small extension allowed by the EU. And there will be Brexit with or without a deal, depending on the will of the people as shown on the general elections. If they want to leave with no deal all they have to do is vote for Johnson.
...in the UK. Glad to see you respect democratic referendums. Not some authoritarian who wants to keep voting until your preferred outcome is achieved. "In my view this is a once in a generation - perhaps even a once in a lifetime" -Alex Salmond
Jeremy Corbyn made clear that: 1) Labour does not support leaving the EU with no deal 2) Labour supports having a second referendum with regards to any deal that is reached and agreed to by Parliament 3) Labour will support remaining in any second referendum Also, let's recall that the EU has said that they are not going to renegotiate the deal, and the UK Parliament has already voted down the existing deal in decisive manner three times. Supposedly the exception would be if there is a general election before October 31 and Corbyn becomes Prime Minister AND Corbyn renegotiates a better deal, then presumably he would support his own deal. Which Leavers know would not be a real Brexit, it would be Brexit in name only. This is what the author of your article at the Guardian is apparently confused about. It may be confusing for some on the Remain side - hence the consternation by the Guardian - but it is not confusing to the Leave side. And both Corbyn and his MP's in Leave districts know it. If there is a general election right now, Labour is going to get slaughtered. They do not want that. Especially the Labour MP's in the Leave districts do not want that. These Labour MP's support Leaving. So for them, it would be better and more desirable to Leave. This will all figure in to a no confidence vote for Boris Johnson, that EVERYONE in the UK will know is just a proxy for Brexit, to Leave or to Remain, simple as that. It is not clear if Jeremy Corbyn will call for a no confidence motion in these circumstances. He didn't after Boris Johnson was installed, before the Parliament left on holiday. That was actually the opportune time to do this, because it provided enough slack in the schedule to allow for the Remain forces to stop Brexit, if they were successful. But already, the schedule is not so sure, even if the electoral prospects in the next general election for Labour are. Labour is going to lose seats and quite a few of them. Even if some of these seats were to be won by the Lib Dems, that is not what Labour wants. They will not be mollified by that possibility at all. Even though you might be.
It is not about making "no deal" happen. It is about making Brexit happen. The alternative to Brexit is no Brexit. The people of the UK voted in favor of Brexit happening and Parliament voted to trigger Article 50. That process is underway. It is what will happen, deal or no deal (there is no deal available that is acceptable to Parliament, as you know very well, nor is there likely to be) unless somehow that process is stopped - unanimously by ALL 28 heads of the EU, of which Boris Johnson is one. To stop this now, the 28 EU nation heads must agree. That is the goal. Even if that happens and there is a general election in the UK, if it is not completed before October 31, when the UK is scheduled to Leave the EU under EU law, then the UK is out. As far as the court cases, again, there is just not time for all of that. The clock is ticking. Jeremy Corbyn should have filed a no confidence motion two the same day Boris Johnson was installed as Prime Minister, if he was going to. But he does not believe he has the votes to pass it. Otherwise, he would have.
Boris Johnson's most senior aide, Dominck Cummings - who many credit with being the one responsible for leading the Leave campaign to success in the 2016 Brexit Referendum - has stated today that Corbyn and the Remainers have missed their chance and that there is no longer time to stop Brexit before the deadline, even if no confidence vote is passed and a general election is called, because that vote would not occur until after the October 31 date. Dominic Cummings tells MPs: you've missed your chance to stop no-deal Brexit MPS are too late to prevent a no-deal Brexit, Boris Johnson’s most senior aide has said. Dominic Cummings told ministers and officials that the Prime Minister will honour his October 31 pledge even if Jeremy Corbyn and pro-Remain Conservatives succeed in forcing a general election. In a series of explosive briefings last week, Mr Cummings suggested that the Labour leader had missed his opportunity to secure an election before the UK’s intended departure date from the EU. If Mr Johnson loses a no-confidence vote when the Commons returns in September, potentially leading to a general election, the Prime Minister would have the power to schedule to vote for after Halloween, Mr Cummings disclosed. Someone is going to have to pull a rabbit out of a hat to stop this now. However that might be done, nobody is publicly discussing this method, to the best of my knowledge. It is just a vague, formless dream, or so it appears.
Jeremy Corbyn stated today that Labour will call for a vote of no confidence “when we can win it”, but added it would be at an “appropriate very early time”. Corbyn says he will call no confidence vote in Government to stop no-deal Brexit Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn will call for a vote of no confidence in the Government this autumn in an attempt to stop a no-deal Brexit. Mr Corbyn said the party would do this “when we can win it”, but added it would be at an “appropriate very early time”. Prime Minister Boris Johnson said the “last thing” he wanted to do was call a general election. It comes as Health Secretary Matt Hancock issued a fresh warning to rebel Tory MPs that they cannot stop Boris Johnson taking Britain out of the EU in a no-deal Brexit. So, he could have said September 3, but he did not. For this tactic to have any chance to work, Labour must file for the no confidence vote immediately when Parliament returns from its six week long summer vacation. And if he fails to do it before Parliament reassesses again about a week later, for the annual party conferences, then any move to do this will only be to sort out the seating arrangements in Parliament and will have nothing to do with stopping Brexit. Very vague statement today, Mr. Corbyn. Very vague.
Labour has effectively committed to oppose Brexit without a deal, and to support a second referendum for any deal that Parliament approves (which is not likely to happen), and to support Remaining in that referendum. What this means is that Labour supports Remaining. But with the Labour party conference just barely more than a month away, the activists in the party want a more forceful and clear commitment to Remain leading into that conference. From the UK Guardian: Activists lead push for Labour to back staying in EU before conference “With Labour already committed to a public vote and an option to remain, we have no incentive to accept a fudge – and we can expect overwhelming support from members, as well as significant union backing. Ultimately, Labour needs to be able to answer the question: ‘Do you want to stop Brexit or deliver it?’” The group has been phone-banking contacts in constituency Labour parties since June to persuade local parties to submit their motion, containing the line – “Labour will campaign energetically for a public vote and to remain. We support revoking article 50 if necessary to prevent no deal.” Though the Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, has committed to holding a public vote and campaigning to remain on any Conservative-brokered Brexit deal, as well as holding a referendum should his party get into power before any EU exit, the new motion would go substantially further than any Labour policy. It would commit the party to proactively campaigning for a referendum, as well as campaigning for remain on any deal, including one clinched by a Labour government, as well as backing revoking article 50 as a measure to stop no deal. The final clause in particular is likely to be robustly opposed by some Labour MPs in leave seats. It appears that those who support leave on this subject are now very clear on where Labour stands on this issue. But the Remainers in the party are dedicated to squeezing the last drops of wiggle room out of the current party position. I hope they succeed in their effort to further clarify the Labour party's stance on this issue.
So it appears that Labour is not going to support the idea of a "National unity government". The Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell is insisting that Labour will lead any replacement government, or it is off to the polls to get this sorted. So much for that idea. From the UK Guardian: John McDonnell insists Labour would reject unity government Shadow chancellor sees Corbyn-led government or general election as pathways to stop hard Brexit John McDonnell has doubled down on his pledge that Labour would reject a government of national unity and instead would push for Jeremy Corbyn to form a government or for a general election, in a move that appeared to stymie plans being prepared by Tory rebels. The shadow chancellor said that if the Conservative leader failed to quit he would not “want to drag the Queen into this but [he] would be sending Jeremy Corbyn in a cab to Buckingham Palace to say ‘we’re taking over’”. McDonnell said he expected Labour to win that confidence vote, and said Labour would try to force Johnson out by attempting to form a caretaker government with the support of other opposition parties and rebel Conservative MPs. Ruling out any deals with the Liberal Democrats or the Scottish National party, McDonnell said the only guarantee to other opposition parties would be to block a no-deal Brexit and organise a fresh EU referendum. “Again that no means no coalitions or pacts, we just put it there [and] I think people of goodwill who are concerned about the interests of this country, about avoiding a no-deal Brexit, will vote for it,” he said. And it appears that the Lib Dems and the Scottish National Party are not going to support a Corbyn led government. Especially when the Lib Dems are on the rise and are poised to make huge gains in the Parliament at Labour's expense. Meanwhile, if the next election is held on or after October 31, then the Brexit Party will no longer have a reason to exist, as Brexit will have been achieved. And all of that vote will be hoovered up by Boris Johnson and the Tories.
Brexit with deal is still Leave its not Remain. And when did Corbyn officially state that they would support Remain in a second referendum? He only contemplated about it and NEVER said that's the official policy of the Labour party. He only said that he supports there would a referendum for the final choice. In his mind, he will have negotiated a new WA by then, and that's what Labour will officially support. Brexit. You are deluded if you believe in the immediate aftermath of a no deal Brexit, the Tories will get more votes. People can say they support something but when they face the immediate consequences without time for there to be many measures to counter them, they will blame the ones who lead them there. Many farmers voted for Leave. With 40% tarriffs in sheep meat, in the slaughtering season of October and November , you think they will vote Tories? What about the people of NI the people of Kent and Dover that will have their areas completely put in a standstill with many kilometers long rows of lorries? Or you think that Johnson will magically, also make a EU or US trade deal happen in the 15 days before he has to leave for good?
He also said that he supports a Scottish independence referendum. What is this? It goes against official Labour policy. Why? Because he is trying to buy the support of the SNP. That's the art of politics, negotiating. When push comes to shove, IF it comes to this, everyone will have to make consessions. Most likely these will be done even before the no confidence vote. To buy the 40 Tories votes to throw Johnson off, Corbyn will have to take a step back. And it will be better for him anyway. A national unity government will be very shortlived. And about the 3 September date in your other post, MPs have said that they will vote to just change the schedule so they can sit through the recess. They don't have any laws anyway so they can vote to do whatever they want.
Let me Google that for you, even though I did post quotes and links about this, earlier in the thread. Here you go: https://lmgtfy.com/?q=Corbyn+says+Labour+would+back+remain+in+Brexit+referendum+ You will see the top story is from one your favorites, the UK Guardian.
