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The future of the EU and the UK, post-Brexit

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by MojoMan, Dec 4, 2016.

  1. malakas

    malakas Member

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    Who knows and who cares?

    The fact is, that it is a common precedence in modern british democracy and an established procedure.
    That's all that's needed.

    We have desperate MPs using the Northern Irish amendment to legalise gay marriage and abortion through the back door, and you think that an established legal procedure widely used all over Europe is a "pipe dream" ? :D

    Just looked it up and it seems like the USA has never had, that's why it's so strange to you.


    Well it will all depend on Johnson. If he goes and ask for an extension himself when he is deposed, then there will be no need.
     
  2. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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  3. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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  4. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Boris Johnson has been cleaning house and appointing new ministry heads this afternoon. Here is a link to a a story about that, for anyone who is interested:

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/poli...-brexit-liam-fox-mordaunt-grayling-greg-clark

    One appointment that should be relevant for us here in the near future. Liz Truss has been appointed to replace Liam Fox as the International Trade Secretary. I believe she will be the one in charge of negotiating the free trade agreement with the US on behalf of the Brits, while Robert Lighthizer, our US Trade Representative, will handle the duties for the US.

     
  5. dmoneybangbang

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    As a US citizen, I expect for the US to use it’s leverage to extract greater concessions from the U.K. now that it’s a considerably smaller entity than the EU.

    Would you agree?
     
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  6. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    I expect both trade representatives to work to negotiate the best trade agreement that they can for the benefit of their countries. Both countries require that these agreements, treaties actually, be approved by our Congress, or their Parliament, respectively. So this has to be an agreement that is mutually agreeable and certainly better than the WTO terms that we basically trade under right now.
     
  7. dmoneybangbang

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    But you understand that the US has more leverage to negotiate against the U.K. than the EU?

    Do you expect Trump and co to give the U.K. a better deal solely because of Brexit, that’s not in the interest of the American people.
     
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  8. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    I expect that Robert Lighthizer will be conducting the trade negotiations on behalf of the US, not Donald Trump. These negotiations are extremely complex and include potentially the full range of industries across the economies of both of our nations. It is all very technical.

    Again, the final agreements will be very public and our respective legislatures will be required to publicly debate and approve any treaty that is negotiated. I do not expect our side to give the UK any special treatment, or to impose ourselves in any manner that is not customary for these sorts of negotiations.
     
  9. dmoneybangbang

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    Robert Lighthizer is part of Trump and co.

    Very lawyer-ish answer. I think you understand the position the U.K. has put itself in but your in too deep.

    After a US campaign against globalization and being taken advantage of by other countries, the US should use its leverage to extract the best possible deal from the U.K. and play hardball.
     
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  10. malakas

    malakas Member

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    Liz Truss is a crazy woman who refers to herself in the third person as " The Truss" and complains why 2 year old toddlers aren't being taught discipline in nurseries but run around with no purpose.

    Raab is a serial killer lookalike with no negotiating skills. He has been there before and we saw the results.
    Even David Davis who didn't even show up for work, did a better job than him in previous negotiations.

    They will both be roasted.

    And the american government will demand first and foremost to be able to sell their cheap chemical,pesticide and hormone filled food products to the british, with not even a label of place of origin.
    I wonder what rhetoric the Tories will try to find to pass the new laws that destroy food safety and animal welfare to the public.


    Anyway apart from Amber Rudd, Johnson filled his government with Tory extremists.
    However the ones he has to pacify are now the moderate wing of his party because they are the ones who have the power and the incentive to depose him.

    So maybe he knows that this is only a facade that will last 1 and a half month.
     
  11. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    Bigger the country, the more liabilities you have in a FTA. Less vested interests to appease.
     
  12. dmoneybangbang

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    The bigger country, the larger the scale and market.
     
  13. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Boris Johnson does not believe that the EU is truly committed to the current deal on the table. Certainly they have been using their current posture to try to push the UK away from actually leaving the EU. In fact if the UK Parliament were to sign on to the agreement, that would be Brexit in name only, which would not deliver a real Brexit at all.

    BoJo to EU: Come on, you’re not serious about this deal

    British Prime Minister Boris Johnson has called on the European Union to “rethink” its refusal to renegotiate the Brexit deal, as he pledged to throw all his energy into making sure Britain leaves the bloc on time on Oct. 31.

    Addressing a rowdy session of Parliament for the first time since becoming prime minister, Johnson pledged Thursday to take a new approach. Rejecting the Brexit withdrawal agreement negotiated by his fellow Conservative predecessor, Theresa May, he insisted that while he wanted a deal, the country was better prepared than widely believed to leave the bloc without one.

    “I hope that the EU will be equally ready and that they will rethink their current refusal to make any changes to the Withdrawal Agreement,” he said. “If they do not, we will, of course, have to leave — the U.K. — without an agreement.”​

    This is the right approach. A deal should be achievable, but the EU is going to have to be willing to agree to a final date for the backstop, or to the elimination of the backstop. Their choice.

    If they actually refuse to budge, then Brexit should proceed on October 31, full steam ahead. These agreements will eventually be negotiated. The intransigence of the EU is just a transparent effort to try to deter the UK from leaving.

    Well done, Boris. Now, enjoy your vacation. [​IMG]
     
  14. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Below is a video of the first UK Parliamentary session after Boris Johnson's appointment as Prime Minister. It also includes an opening of this session by Jacob Rees Moog, who is the newly appointed Leader of the House of Commons.

    Boris Johnson follows with his premiere at the dispatch box as Prime Minister. It is, as one might expect, a very lively session.

     
  15. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    and therefore...?

    The larger you are, you have to protect more vested interests. The UK will benefit more simply because they have less vested interests, already do a ton of business with us, and will see much lower prices for consumers. There isn't a "bad" deal to be had by either side here. We aren't negotiating a price on widgets.
     
  16. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Contributing Member

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    It takes a man to get it done.
     
  17. Realjad

    Realjad Contributing Member

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    One could make the argument that Brexit as a whole benefits the USA greatly within the confines of geopolitics and if a better deal is offered solely because of Brexit as an enticement to Brexit than ultimately that's a win for America and UK alike.
     
  18. dmoneybangbang

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    And therefore you have more leverage. You have your example backwards, because the U.K. is so much smaller it has many protectionist policies in place to protect its vested interests.

    The U.K., like every major country protects its auto sector, will the U.K. lowers its tariffs? Has the US lowered its high tariffs on SUVs/trucks for any country yet? Nope, why would it do it for the U.K.?

    The U.K. protects its pharmaceuticals/healthcare industries under the NHS, will they let more American competition from our respective industries?

    The U.K. has higher agricultural and food standards, will they lower it for the US?

    Lastly, the US been requiring that countries essentially “check with the US” before making any trade deals with a China. Will the U.K. give up its sovereignty to trade with how they see fit with China?

    The U.K. is not in a position to make demands against the US as such a smaller entity compared with the EU.
     
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  19. dmoneybangbang

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    Yea if Trump is feeling generous after his tirades against globalization and letting countries “take advantage of the US”.
     
  20. malakas

    malakas Member

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    It looks like the talks will not even open since the UK now insists they will only sit if the Irish backstop is erased.

    After Johnson said it now outright, he can't take it later back because he will seem weak to the ERG.

    This makes it even easier for the Tory rebels in 2 months, to vote to get rid of him if he won't even start negotiations.

    Would he even survive if the vote was held today? Perhaps Labour should have risked it, there are some Tory rebels who are too deep down to even care to be stigmatised anymore.
    Keneth Clarke who is about to retire, Grieve who has done everything to avoid no deal, Gawke and Hammond.
    That's already 4 who I believe would cooperate to lead the country into general election today.
    Enough to topple this government.

    And Johnson could get his wish and be imortalised in the history books.
    As the shortest lived PM.
     

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