The difference between MIA's "slow start" and NYK's slump

You just contradicted yourself with your 2nd sentence.

 

Media and fans are so obssessed with their "superstar" search that they forget that basketball is a team sport. Five really good players that committ to the offensive and defensive philosophies can put an arse kicking on any "two superstars".

To me, there are only a few players that you can call superstars because of the way they impact every aspect of the game. Just because they make ESPN orgasm does not make them superstars.
The other thing I'm hearing is that NY will be fine.. it's easy to get role players. I think getting the missing pieces is just as difficult as finding "superstars". It takes a competent GM to find the right chemistry.

 

he can but he just doesnt do it. Just like Kobe can get to the basket at will but somehow they don't do it as much.

 

I think that the current Knicks roster would be competing for homecourt advantage if they had a defensive coach rather than Mike D'Antoni.

Really, D'Antoni's system does not suit Billups, Douglas, or Melo. This Knicks team is not built well, and the Knicks know it. But it's worth it to acquire Melo, because it's not as difficult to get a damn good coach, and then it's just a matter of a couple of cheap additions and minor trades.

The only concern I'd have is that Billups' game is slowing down considerably and I don't think he wants to be in New York.

 

Random thoughts during halftime of KU/VCU why the situations are different:

1. The two superstars in Miami (LBJ & Wade) are indeed superstars. Legit top-5 players. Plus they have a great 3rd wheel in Bosh. The two guys in NY are stars, but not superstars. The talent difference between LeBron+Wade and Amare+Melo is truly significant. It's a gaping sieve when you add Bosh in.

2. The two leaders in Miami are very smart basketball players. The two guys in NY aren't dummies, but neither guy has a high b-ball IQ.

3. The two leaders in Miami have some experience playing together, are genuinely friends and like each other. The two Knicks stars have games that do not mix well because neither is a good facilitator for the other. In fact, neither is good at facilitating for other players in general.

3. Miami had a training camp together.

4. I hate to harp on this, but D'Antoni just isn't that great a coach. His limitations are on full display.

5. Melo and George Karl did not like each other, but Melo realized that Karl knew his stuff and he respected him for it. After coming to the Knicks, Melo figured out that D'Antoni isn't half the coach Karl is. IMO, Melo doesn't have any respect for D'Antoni and never will. To suddenly go from playing for a basketball encyclopedia to a shallow, one-sided coach like D'Antoni has to be tough. Melo's recent words show complete disrespect for his new coach.

6. Because he is so immature, Melo has already retreated into self-preservation mode. As long as he puts up his points, he's all good. With the losing streak, he doesn't care so much about winning right now. His concern is escaping blame and pinning it on D'Antoni.

Back to March Madness.

 

I think it's too early to expect NY to be good. They just gutted their team to get Anthony and Billups. Last offseason, when Miami picked up the superfriends, we all said, 'but they gutted their whole team to do it!' Then they managed to pick up Mike Miller, and Ilgauskas, and Bibby, etc. They rebuilt their roleplayers pretty quickly. NY hasn't had the chance to do that yet. The other shoe will drop for them this offseason. More guys will come to play with the NY Big 3 and they'll be good next season. They don't need to be good this season.

Picking up a coach like Adelman will help a bunch too.

 

This team will continue to get better as it adds players to fill certain spots but its ceiling is pretty low as long as they have D'Antoni as a coach. Until then they are '07-Phoenix-light and they are going to suffer in the playoffs until they commit themselves to stopping and outrebounding the other team.

 

One thing you didn't account for though is the salary aspect of the deal, and why its so bad on so many levels. Pre-trade NY only had long term commitements to Amare, and even he was signed to a discount (i.e. over FA instead of trade). This meant NY had a chance to trade for both Cp3 and Melo form their own big 3. However with the Melo extension you can basically write that off, the Knicks made sure they will be paying the highest "superstar" in the league for a long time, Melo will be making more than DH, Durant, Lebron, CP3, Deron, Rose and basically every superstar you can think off.

So I think there's a world fo difference pre trade and post trade NY. Pretrade NY had flexibility and promise of getting better. POst trade NY will be mediocre for the forseeable future. And that's not counting how awful Melo's shooting has been recently.

 

They don't really have the cash to get those guys. Miami had the big 3 mystique to draw vets and they had the mid-level to spend on Miller.

NY oth probably won't get the MLE; its under discussion to be cut. Also Melo is a notorious ballhog, I'm not sure I know anyone just dying to play with him, esp. with their season unravelign right before our eyes.

Plus, the vets Miami got haven't exactly helped a lot. Right now no sub in Miami is averaging more than 9 pts a game.

 

i agree

 

Simply put:

LeBron + Wade >> Amare + Melo

 

Defense is the difference between the post trade Knicks & Nuggets and the Heat. The Heat had a good defense, but needed better offensive players to go with Wade. James is Wade's equal on both ends of the court. Bosh fills in nicely as the 3rd offensive option & is ok defensively. They added players to fill specific roles. They had training camp (minus Wade) to get to know each other. The season has been a "training camp" (if you will) to work every one in with Wade for the playoffs

The Nuggets had a pg to take over for Billups. In trading Melo, they got rid of a defensive black hole & added role players that could fill in around Nene, Martin & Smith. Now Karl has a team that can play team offense and team DEFENSE. Plus they have draft picks & some financial flexibility to add players to improve.

The Knicks now a star (Amare) that can play D'Antoni's run & gun system and a star (Melo) that flourishes a half court 1 on 1 system. They don't match and none of the 3 knows a lick of Defense. The Knicks also lost their team depth & financial flexibility to add star or role players.

IMO for the next 5 years; the Heat are NBA finals contenders, the Nuggets are 2nd round contenders and the Knicks are playoff contenders.

 

The difference is actually that Anthony in particular is a bad fit for the 2 superstar model - both Wade and James can dish out 10+ assists a night when they want to, Anthony either can't or won't, and therein lies the problem.

Stoudemire's optimal pairing is with a good PG or a swingman who can/will pass it (McGrady, mid 2000's era), Carmelo isn't either.

 

Martin + Scola>> Amare + Melo...excluding 4th quarter scoring

 

I agree with you that changes to the CBA are a threat to completing the NY roster. But, I do think there will be talented role-players who will want to come to NY (if they can't get a spot in Miami) and may give a discount to do so.

In the case of both Miami and NY, they don't need role-players to score much. The superfriends will do most of that anyway. They need guys who can play defense, grab rebounds, and hit open jumpers.

 

This.

When both stars are volume shooters that don't create for other players, it's a bad mix. In addition to being passers, LBJ & Wade are also both better and smarter players than Melo or Amare.

At some point Melo might grow up and realize he has to grow his game into assisting others, but he ain't there yet.

 

I don't think the Knicks will be anything close to a magnet like the Heat because Melo and Amare (correctly) aren't viewed as being in the same class as players. The burden on the Knicks to shore up their roster in the offseason is immense.

I also don't think D'Antoni is viewed as a coach that will take players to the promised land.

 

Wade, James, Stoudemire, and Anthony, all four of them are great scorers. But only two of them are also great play makers. You know who those two are. That's the same as saying that Wade and James are simply better players than Stoudemire and Anthony.

The two at Miami are legit elite franchise players. The two at New York are quasi elite franchise players.

 

what? Amare and Melo are better at every facet of the game than martin and scola, even defense, as sad as that seems.

 

those 2 also play defense. if your best players don't play defense, its very hard for the rest of the team to follow unless you have a great defensive coach, and we all know that is not d'antoni.

you saw yesterday a great defensive "effort" by the knicks simply b/c amare and melo actually tried to play defense in that game. it wasn't shut-down defense, but the effort was there. now if you're a knicks fan, you can only hope that happens more frequently. even mike breen was pissed off wondering why melo doesn't play defense every game.

i think this is the key reason why the knicks are struggling. they simply don't have the inclination to play defense, and play it consistently.