i like this lineup a lot and have actually been expecting this to be what we roll out when the season starts. the biggest reason is it would shore up our defense that much more. there would absolutely be no second chances for the other team and hardly any scoring inside the paint unless they have tim duncan or LMA. for any team to beat us it will need to be at the 3 only. with dwight and asik down low our perimeter guys can take their chances and play their perimeter guys up close and close out on shooters aggressively. i'm not concerned about our offense. our offense was never the issue last year (except for late, tight game situations where the ball stopped moving but that will come with more experience playing with each other). if we keep the similar pace, or even a little below that, we'll be fine. the potential on defense is what has me really excited about this lineup.
i dont see the need to stress or worry about starters when most of the time against the top tier teams like heat and okc we are gonna resort to parsons or cassipi at the 4. The rockets small ball's offence advantages always seemed to out way the defence downfalls, especially when we now have a major upgrade of Dwight over Omer. To me whoever finishes is much more important and we maybe should be discussing parsons or cassipi at the 4.
Seeing this thread shows you guys have no idea what's goin on in basketball. This decade of basketball is leaning to small ball. Having big SFs play PF. Duncan on the cusps of his career. The big man game is fading. Asik and Howard could not guard lebron melo...
And yet with Omer and Greg Smith - two guys who can't shoot from the outside - our offense was pretty awesome. SMH on this comment. I think you only post Dwight up with Omer out of the game. I also think Asik is more than capable of developing a mid-range shot.
This is a good discussion. I am leaning on agreeing that a Howard-Asik lineup can work well. Here are some answers to most objections. 1. Howard is more like a 4 than Asik. Answer: Who cares what you call them? They are both big men and should match up with whoever is the best for their strengths. 2. Asik can't guard the stretch 4s on the perimenter. Answer: I am not so sure about it. Asik is one of the best PnR defenders mostly because he has the ability to recover back to the basket after showing on the ball handler. That means he has very good foot speed. He may not be "athletic" in the sense of having great body control. But he is not slow. There's a reason why he is one of the best defenders in the league without being a great shot blocker. He is essentially a taller version of Chuck Hayes. 3. Asik will clog up the lane on half court offense. Answer: Asik actually has good court sense. He is an underrated passer and is good at sneaking to the basket when the defense is ignoring him. Again, he is pretty much a taller version of Chuck Hayes on offense. And Chuck was very underrated on his offensive contribution. Also, he is a very good screener. With two of the best screeners on the court, Harden and Lin will have a much easier time penetrating. 4. Asik will slow down out fast break. Answer: As some posters have already pointed out, Asik is a very good outlet passer, and Howard is good at trailing in a fast break. For an effective running game, you don't need all five players running. You only need three guys. And most importantly, you need good defensive rebounding for transition offense. Asik is definitely one of the best defensive rebounders.
The last thing we need is for Howard to be unhappy. This shouldn't even be an option watch they won't even consider this. Howard stays at the 5 spot
Do u really expect Asik to guard the opposing 4 in Lebron, and before you say "parsons will play on Lebron" what purpose does that leave Asik on the court then, to guard battier or ray Allen on the perimeter where u have to close fast? I don't see the twin towers working in playoffs TBH The best way the twin towers could work would be a zone since it is technically approved to be used, with rules like 3 in the defensive key, and the rapid increase on corner shooters in the nba, i feel that the small ball option for a majority of the game is a more effective way..
<object width="640" height="360"><param name="movie" value="//www.youtube.com/v/9r2eWN96VaQ?hl=en_US&version=3&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="//www.youtube.com/v/9r2eWN96VaQ?hl=en_US&version=3&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="640" height="360" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object> Asik is more than capable of stepping out and defending most of the league's starting 4's outside of Dirk and a few others. On top of that, Asik can force Dirk to drive into the paint, where Howard will be waiting for him. Asik plays the 4 - that's the way it should be, while Howard plays the 5 because Howard is the better rim protector. On offense, Asik just has to learn to catch the ball. The guy is so big that once he gets the ball the only way to stop him is to foul him. So you can run the PnR with Asik and then pass to Howard in either post or off the weak side. It will force the opposing defenses to scramble as they will only have 4 guys to defend against two 2 point threats, 2 big men finishers, and one penetrating guard. That's bad news. When you play small ball and have 3 3 point shooters, then what happens is that the guy who got screened just walks over to pick up the 3 point shooter that's not in the corner. Now they won't be able to do that since everyone is pretty much on the baseline. For those who feel our offense will slow down - that's fine. The whole reason we ran the quick offense in the first place was because didn't have a big man who could dominate. We didn't have the greatest half-court sets in the league. Now we can be more effective in the half court. We don't need to score 106 points to win games. Great systems aren't about plugging players into a system dogmatically. It's about looking at the talent you have and building a system that exploits that talent. And there is no system we have that can exploit the talents of Dmo or Jones, they can only try to minimize their weaknesses. Yes Asik has weaknesses. but it's not like we are taking last year's team, which was very effective on offense, and plugging Asik for Jones/Dmo. No, we are replacing Jones with Howard. It works on Defense, and it works on offense...but Asik has to play the 4.
Asik does have a decent set jumper. If he isn't guarded the dude makes those shots. While the sample size is small, the ones he take is all net. Look at the 4/1/13 game against the Magic where Asik had to carry more of the offense since Harden and Parsons were out. Asik made two jumpers including one where the shot clock was winding down. If Asik is consistent with this shot, a front court of Asik and Dwight could be absolutely devestating.
Yhat might just work to our advantage though. Im skeptical of the Asik-Howard front court, but I think the fact that everyone's playing smallball only encourages a twin tower lineup. Save Lebron, no hybrid forward will be able to stop an Asik post up
Lebron is going to be a problem for anyone including Parsons. It's one special situation that we'll have to adjust for and throw different defenses at.
Ah yes the old. 'You guys dont know anything argument' We can play small ball too. Duh. Who can guard melo and lebron in the whole NBA effectively? Also who are you recommending guard melo and lebron? Casspi? Smith? Jones? Parsons? Dmo? come on man you are better than that if you know so damn much about basketball. Its funny all kinds of people that hate the idea yet the only argument worth 2 shi**ts is that it 'clogs the lane' As opposed to Asik and Smith? I mean come on you are going to tell me smith has lateral movement and outside game? What I still fail to get is how is any lineup of smith,jones,dmo casspi as tandem to howard is better than a main lineup of howard/ asik? The benefits far out weigh the negatives of 'clogging the lane' Funny also people against it but cant seem to provide any reason why: Thanks for telling us why. Thanks for telling us why. Finally someone makes an argument: No one is asking asik to carry any load inside. His job is defense and rebounding which we can argue is pretty close to elite. And by the way we did okay with Asik and Smith. Imagine Howard and Asik? Dmo is a year 2 project and while he can make outside shots his defense would be deporable in an ongoing basis. How much better of a defender is Smith vs. Asik? What about Jones? Neither one of them can hold a candle to asik on defense. On the flip side how much better is smith than asik on offense? You are telling me a bum stomping almost d leaguer in Jones is THAT much better on offense than asik? You are going to tell me jones is THAT much better on defense? You can't because asik > smith, jones, dmo etc. Finally a half way decent argument which is basically another version of 'asik clogs lane' offense against rotation defense in playoffs against asik and smith was serviceable. Now replace smith with freaking dwight howard and tell me the rotation defense is just going to eat us up? Btw we have harden (the best sg in league) to kick it out to on the interior defense rotation situaitions. Also parsons for 3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If there is another reason why I think a Howard - Asik lineup could work, it is because I have watched the days of Yao Ming and Chuck Hayes playing, and it was a fairly effective combo even without Chuck having a jumper and decent range. Rockets during the Yao - Chuck era had excellent interior defence, and still very decent levels of combined offensive production from the front-court. So yes, it is workable. However, I still personally think that the only way Asik can ever play the 4 SUCCESSFULLY is if he develops a solid, consistent 15 - 18 foot range jumper. He needs to be more Scola (with the ability to make defenses pay with a jumper if they double down on Howard) then Chuck who aims more for rebounds, tip ins, put backs and lay-ups.... But well, ultimately, we'll see how things go.
i never understand why people always mention asik at the 4 in a twin tower scenario. Dwight would absolutely be the 4.
Asik at the 4 can work. If he starts getting owned by the likes of Dirk, sub him out. Seems pretty simple to me.
ok Please show us some vids where Asik dribbles and plays well with the ball down low which is what he will be doing more of as a 4. He is pretty quick for his size and has deceptive speed. I also have seen him shoot away from the basket and he is good for it but only seen a small sample size.
2 true centers playing together? It seems like the paint would be clogged up. Are defenses supposed to respect Asiks outside shot? It will be 2 on 1, who ever is going to the rim. And are you guys under estimating other teams PF's? They will pull him to the three point line and drive right pass him or drive and dish to their center( which ever is open) that seems like it would be frustrating for Asik or Howard. I know it sounds cool, and I guess most of you are saying this because of who our pf's are, But give them a chance. Asik backing up Howard keeps a solid center in the game the whole time. Keeps their roles to what they are good at. I'm sure in certain situations they will team up. this debate can go back and forth , il just wait for what the starting five is when the season starts.
