oh poor bush. we shouldnt pick on him, should we? when we criticize things he has actually done and bring up "facts" we are just being irrelevant and mean spirited. what has he ever done to us and OUR country? advocated for policies of torture, including sexually torturing children warrentless wiretaps on american citizens destruction of the constitution, which he took an oath to uphold above all else removal of habeas corpus enabling act...i mean military commissions act of 2006, which allows indefinite detention of american citizens w/out charges or opportunity to plead your case "free speech zones" lying us into a war which has brought death and total destruction to hundreds of thousands of innocent people unwillingness to defend our borders and infact, encouraging illegal immigration by persuing a policy of "amnesty" (even though fox news says he is against it) north american union and the spp $2.6 billion on fake news and propaganda
dude, im not justifying or defending anything. Nor am i saying not to ridicule policies, actions, or whatever. But when things turn personal and immature then its just sad and actually doesnt put a good reflection on yourself. Basically makes one look like a childish brat with a big mouth.
it is very telling that you can offer absolutely no defense of bush, but rather just complain about people complaining on a basketball message board about the horrible job his administration has done the last 6 years. basically makes one look like a clueless fool with a big mouth. i guess it is inline w/ someone who has said that things wouldnt be so bad if people didnt complain so much.
whats even more telling is that you dont understand im not attempting to make a defense for bush in this thread. we can have a discussion on something in particular and i will give my opinion but thats not what this thread is about, is it?
You never defend bush, you complain about people who complain about him. And yet you want to be above all of that, correct? Like calling people who have a big problem with bush a "mob". Or was that meant to be a compliment? And this thread is about bush's legacy. So, please enlighten me and tell me what you think bush's legacy will be.
oh no, i understand that you are not defending him. just criticizing other for criticizing him. that is kind of my point. if only people didnt criticize the administration, we would have all these problems, right?
i didnt say i never defend bush. depending on the topic i may very well. I said i was not necessarily defending bush in this thread. i was calling the more extreme people the mob, if memory serves. however, like i said earlier, Im not against a little ribbing or a jab here and there...it keeps things interesting and i can appreciate and understand that. And you are right, this thread is about bush's legacy, yet oddly enough it turned into a mudslinging contest and when someone pointed that out, they get called out. Seems odd to me. but i do like how My opinion on his legacy? Obviously it will have some of the hot topics and scandals. But ultimately i think it will take a several years before people can really look back and accurately judge a president. Gun to my head and i had to say. I suppose i would be somewhere between a man that took a bold stand and showed innitiative to aggressively go after terrosism at any cost (even detrimental ones) and a man who made mistakes in enforcing his stance.
criticize all you want. But do so in a somewhat reasonable manner. personally i dont think that you suggesting he hires gay hookers, or that he supports the torture of children and whatever else over the top comments you want to make are beyond criticism and flirt with ridiculous.
See, this is where you lose me. The more extreme people, the mob, is who you were mentioning in your original quote though you never say who they are. Now as far as mudslinging goes, there is plenty to go around on both sides. Maybe you should post on basso's threads and ask him why he is so intent on demonizing Democrats, who by the way were elected by Americans, equating them with terrorist sympathizers, troop haters and defeatists. Or does that fall under:
right, i never say who the mob was. I didnt particularly have anyone in mind , i wasnt really directing it at a person as a personal attack, its was just sort used to describe the anger and hostility that can be displayed by a group of people. in basso's defense, he's out manned on here and i think others have addressed his 'issues' enough and i think he's already got enough people hounding him but you may be onto something, i need to ignore the people who are not only over-the-top and unreasonable but more importantly, those that are not willing to engauge in a civil discussion with a little jockeying...just for kicks
i am not suggesting that he hires gay hookers and supports the torture of children - IT IS A FACT AND YOU CAN NOT DENY IT. i wish it wasnt true, but unfortunately it is - YOU CAN NOT DENY THE FACTS. jeff gannon/guckert was a well known d.c. male hooker who the bush administration planted in the white house press corp to field softball questions to the president. under the freedom of information act, a couple senators got the white house logs released that showed gasnnon/guckert visiting the white house over 200 times. im not saying bush has sex w/ the guy, but it is a fact that he was quite close w/ him - and knowing bush's weird skull and bones and bohemian grove ties i wouldnt be suprised if he was doing him. the bush administration has perused a policy of torture, including children. his former legal council, john yoo, has stated that there are no laws preventing him from sexually torturing children. nevermind that the red cross and our own military intelligence officers say that 70-90% of the people we detain in iraq are totally innocent, we will go ahead and torture whomever we want, including children. so yes, it is true and it will be part of his legacy - torturing children and hiring gay male hookers. YOU CAN NOT DENY THE FACTS.
WOW!!! From the WSJ even -- Bush Approval Rating Falls to 28%, Lowest Level So Far, in Harris Poll President Bush's approval rating slipped to new lows in the most recent Harris Interactive survey, but he's not alone: For the first time since the series began, all of the political figures and institutions included in the survey have negative performance ratings. Of the 1,001 American adults polled online April 20-23, only 28% had a positive view of Mr. Bush's job performance, down from 32% in February and from a high of 88% in the aftermath of the terror attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. The current rating is his weakest showing since his inauguration. http://users1.wsj.com/lmda/do/check...7752895118782401.html?mod=politics_primary_hs
This is pretty close TO how I felt during the Vietnam War. No matter how well your personal life might go, once you feel and know how mistaken and evil our country can be AT TIMES , you tend to keep your eyes open and can see through future Bush-Cheneys. That is why some of us never for a minute fell for their lies.
I went to the Bush I Library in College Station. Bush I apparently did 2 things. 1) He got shot down in the Pacific and rescued and 2) He fought the first unnecessary war vs Iraq. For those Texans. Go to the LBJ LIbrary in Austin and see massive achievments which continue to help this country every day. You could do them both in one day for a lesson comparing two war presidents. The one did nothing of note otherwise, i.e., Bush I.
Bush I couldn't have stood pat. Iraq would have next tried to invade Saudi Arabia. Since they are the people who made the Bush family extremely wealthy, there is no way Bush I could have stood idly by. Iraq invades Kuwait, Bush I puts troops on the ground in Saudi Arabia, and ten years later we have 9-11. He should have let the Saudis defend themselves. They've got the cash to make it happen.
america didnt stand pat when saddam attacked iran - in fact, we helped him. (we were also covertly helping the iranians too, but thats a different story) america didnt stand pat when saddam used chemical weapons on the iranians and the kurds - in fact, we helped him.
